Western Railroad Discussion > Engineer/Vision Question

If an engineer should become color blind would they be offered another position within the RR? Or be classified as medically disabled? Surely there is a provision under the Union agreement that would not terminate their employment without just compensation.

Knew a former ATSF engineer could not pass the color test. Went back to fireman and sat atop that seniority board until they did away with firemen, then took his retirement and became a truck driver.
—Mac

johnambrose Wrote:
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> Surely there
> is a provision under the Union agreement that
> would not terminate their employment without just
> compensation.

So, you are advocating that the company should have to pay for a person becoming medically unable to do his job, and the cause of such medical disability has NOTHING to do with the job?

So if a person develops lung cancer because of a lifetime of cigarette smoking and can no longer work, his employer should have to compensate him?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/21 07:55 by jst3751.

I would hope that an employee with a lot of railroad operating knowledge could be placed in a position where that knowledge base could be used.
Maybe in power management, locomotive maintenance, terminal operations, or dispatching.
Not a handout, but a job.
May require relocation.

People don't usually develop color blindness. It's something that you're born with.

PHall Wrote:
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> People don't usually develop color blindness. It's
> something that you're born with.

Yes and the reason I was turned down for train service with the UP 3 days before I started training in Roseville. And that was for a Red Green deficiency, not even color blind. I can see red and green, just cant get more then 6 of 15 on the Ishihara test.

Per my UP rejection,
"Your current medical condition presents significant and imminent risk of substantial harm to yourself or others if you were to perform in this position and we are unable to accommodate your condition to allow you to safely perform the essential functions of the position."

This really puzzles me, after all on TV they jump up and down and tell you if you work hard enough you can do anything. I cant be a pilot, a train crew, electrician/electronics.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/21 23:29 by TomG.

That person would be eligible to apply for a disability annuity through the Railroad Retirement Board provided he has at least 60 months of credible service. Although rare, color blindness CAN develop later in life. I suppose that is the reason the Ishihara Color Vision Test is part of the re-certification physical exam.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/21 23:13 by Chico43.

Well, jst3751, I see that you are back to attacking people.

How do you logically relate smoking and lung cancer (caused by one's own poor choice) with color blindness (caused primarily by genetics)?????

I do not interprete the questions as advocating but as simply trying to find out options.

Back off attacking people and either answer the questions or don't post.

Steve

When I enlisted for service in the Army Special Forces back in 1964 I failed the Red / Green part of the Ishihara test and thought that would be the end of it.  However, the gruff old sergeant who was administering the test pulled out a drawer from his desk that was full of different-colored socks.  One-by-one he went through the pile, asking me to identify the color of each one.  I passed!  LOL

Greg Stadter
Phoenix, AZ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/21 00:26 by E25.

Glad the know it all foamers are at it again. My company put a bunch of guys on RR disability a few years ago for all of a sudden being color blind, they were all 20 to 40+ year employees. So, yeah.

Posted from iPhone

It used to be if you failed a color test using the chart they'd simply restrict the engineer to yard service only; I've seen that happen. But then they realized that even in the yard color signals come into play so that practice stopped. 

I have also seen them take an engineer who failed the color test on a chart out to a siding on an engine and had him look at actual signals to see if he could tell the different colors; passing that and you'd keep working. Then UP (at least on the Portland Service Unit) created this box they'd set up outside and they'd run through the colors on that to see if the engineer could pass. The problem with that was that even a person with perfect vision would have a hard time passing it because the lens for the light was much smaller than a signal and they'd usually do it in bright light often with a bright background at a specified distance (I don't know how far but it wasn't close); get 1 color wrong and you were done, no re-do's.

Failing the color test caused the engineer to be removed from service for "medical", which meant his/her hope was to get a disability through Railroad Retirement, not always the easiest thing to do as we had an engineer in Eugene fail the test and he ended up with quite a battle to get a disability for color blindness. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/21 10:13 by Railbaron.

A guy I knew, now deceased, developed color blindness late in life.
He was a trainman and was primarily a head-end brakeman.  He
was immediately fired when management found out he could no 
longer determine searchlight signal color.   Railroading was his life,
he was never given any type of settlement by Railroad Retirement.
It was the beginning of his alcoholism.  A sad, but true, story. This
happened in the early 1980s.
SR2

MacBeau Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Knew a former ATSF engineer could not pass the
> color test. Went back to fireman and sat atop that
> seniority board until they did away with firemen,
> then took his retirement and became a truck
> driver.
> —Mac

When firemen were still in the cabs of locomotives, weren't they also tasked with watching the signals?   A color-blind fireman would not be able to do this.

That's most I can recall after five plus decades. I was a teenager unloading his truck once a week in high school when he related the tale.
—Mac


colehour Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MacBeau Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Knew a former ATSF engineer could not pass the
> > color test. Went back to fireman and sat atop
> that
> > seniority board until they did away with
> firemen,
> > then took his retirement and became a truck
> > driver.
> > —Mac
>
> When firemen were still in the cabs of
> locomotives, weren't they also tasked with
> watching the signals?   A color-blind fireman
> would not be able to do this.

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glad the know it all foamers are at it again. My
> company put a bunch of guys on RR disability a few
> years ago for all of a sudden being color blind,
> they were all 20 to 40+ year employees. So, yeah.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Willing to bet there was a new color vision test used that no one had the advance answers to.

in the old days they would find another task for him

SGillings Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, jst3751, I see that you are back to
> attacking people.
>
> How do you logically relate smoking and lung
> cancer (caused by one's own poor choice) with
> color blindness (caused primarily by
> genetics)?????
>
> I do not interprete the questions as advocating
> but as simply trying to find out options.
>
> Back off attacking people and either answer the
> questions or don't post.
>
> Steve

His questions are not the problem. His third sentence is the problem.  The part that is "without just compensation" is pointing directly at the employer and has absolutely no place in the questions.

Surely there is a provision under the Union agreement that would not terminate their employment without just compensation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/21 07:51 by jst3751.

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would hope that an employee with a lot of
> railroad operating knowledge could be placed in a
> position where that knowledge base could be used.
> Maybe in power management, locomotive maintenance,
> terminal operations, or dispatching.
> Not a handout, but a job.
> May require relocation.

Dispatchers have to pass a color blindness test as well.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SGillings Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, jst3751, I see that you are back to
> > attacking people.
> >
> > How do you logically relate smoking and lung
> > cancer (caused by one's own poor choice) with
> > color blindness (caused primarily by
> > genetics)?????
> >
> > I do not interprete the questions as advocating
> > but as simply trying to find out options.
> >
> > Back off attacking people and either answer the
> > questions or don't post.
> >
> > Steve
>
> His questions are not the problem. His third
> sentence is the problem.  The part that is
> "without just compensation" is pointing directly
> at the employer and has absolutely no place in the
> questions.
>
> Surely there is a provision under the Union
> agreement that would not terminate their
> employment without just compensation.

It is a very valid part of his question.  Just because YOU have an issue with it does not make it so.  Unfortunately, as already pointed out, you have to go through RRB for a disability.  If you have over 20 years of service, you don't take much of a pay cut.  However, if you have a disability for loss of vision, you better not get caught driving.  They can and will check up on people.

Looks like I opened up a can of worms. I was hoping for a simpler answer. But it obviously has no clear answer.

Posted from iPhone