Western Railroad Discussion > Carrizo Gorge R.R.

Not much print on this impossible R.R. Lately.

Any info--Thanks
RVFoamer aka-Ernie

> Not much print on this impossible R.R. Lately.

The track is in historic condition. Historic as in Ancient Greek. The "ties" are in dirt, what's left of them. There's been a LOT of damage because of the heavy overloaded sand cars. The Museum now travels west, to avoid the track where the sand train runs.

TB

I was traveling to San Diego from Yuma a couple of weeks ago about 1000am and lo and behold a eastbound CZRY Train was coming down the hill into Ocotillo with 2 UP units and 15 cars. Thats the most activity I have seen on the old SD&AE Since the mid 1980's.

Trains run 5-6 days a week, sometimes 7 days. Yes the ties are old, not having been changed since the 1940s!!!! Date nails have been found between 1930, and 1943. All previous operators were not held to their contractural agreements, ie., MAINTENANCE. Hardwood ties, ORIGINAL to construction, 1907-1919, have been found, still relatively intact, and still holding guage. tb being the track maintenance GURU that he is, has once again chimed in on a subject he is obviously clueless about. The MUSEUM offers 2 trips Saturday, and Sunday, 11:00am, and 2:30pm, 1 to the west toward Division, and 1 east to Miller Creek, but at present run to Clover Flat, 1.5 miles short of Miller Creek, due to some bad ties, which the CZRY track crews are working towards repairing. The sand cars are NOT OVERLOADED at 85 to 90 tons each(100 ton cars), due to weight restrictions put in place by CZRY themselves. For a Railroad that has not seen regular scheduled maintenance since the mid 1970s, prior to Tropical Storm Kathleen in 1976, and reinstated by CZRY in 2004, and not operated regularly(daily) in that same period, the line is doing relatively well, contrary to all the "experts", and naysayers. On top of all that CZRY is funding all the repairs with NO FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE from the owner, the Metropolitan Transit System (MTS), formerly the Metropolitan Transit Development Board (MTDB).

Hey folks, I threw together a website here (we have space, so why not?!) with an emphasis being an overview of what the builders had to build through!

http://members.trainorders.com/tmengineman/

Questions, queries, posers accepted...

Enjoy!

Tom Meatzie
Costa Mesa, CA

Do they load the sand on the CZRY or are they unloading it?

Any idea what kind of sand? Aggregate for cement or silica sand for foundry/glass plants?

Thanks

The sand is both loaded, just west of the US Gypsun plant at Plaster City, and unloaded at Campo, to be trucked into San Diego. Sand is mainly used for concrete, as SD County is pretty much out of good quality sand.

Tom,

Where exactly did you take the pictures from? Are there any reasonably accessable places to get a view of the tresle? I have always wanted to see it.

Thanks.

Bryce

busdriver Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom,
>
> Where exactly did you take the pictures from? Are
> there any reasonably accessable places to get a
> view of the tresle? I have always wanted to see
> it.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bryce



Bryce,

"reasonably accessible" not a chance... Not without hiking! You can drive to Sacatone Lookout easily enough, but you can't see "Goat Canyon trestle" from there. It's hiding around a corner. If you look at the "PhotoStitched" photo and enlarge it to where you can see everything as clearly as it can be seen you'll see a small dot of a tunnel just to the right of the "Seven Sisters" (so named as there are "approximately" seven trestles in the grouping). That tunnel is tunnel 15a as I've heard it called and it is the tunnel that opens unto Goat Canyon trestle. The "trestle" (I'm really vague on the difference between a bridge and a trestle!) is running almost east/west and therefore you can't see it behind the ridge that's in front of it. However, if you hike up to Mt. Tule (not necessarily a sane thing in and of itself) and then down and then across the plateau before you you'll find yourself "somewhat" in front of the big trestle. I wouldn't put this hike anywhere near "reasonable" category, I'd put this hike on the far side of "insane"!!! Having said that, I can give you GPS way points to my preferred hike, but don't let dsrtrail know, he probably hikes this route as an AM warm up! (I've never met him, I just seriously envy some of the pictures he's taken!)

The other route would be to call CZRY and see if they might have a program, like the Russian astronauts, where you could "buy" yourself an "Associate Brakeman" position for a day, the pain on the pocketbook might be severe, but it'd be WAY less than the pain you'd have after a hike of this proportion! (Trust me on this one!!!)

1) Would it be possible to carry sand all the way to SD? Or too much interference with trolleys? Though line through TiaJuana needs rebuilding, and not the best transportation corridor, looks like it would still work.

2) Have wondered about the Toyota plant. Looing at Google aerial photos, looks like the tracks are about 1/2 to 3/4 mile north of the plant. Any chance of getting any autoracks out of there? Assume cars/trucks must now be trucked to National City or trucked all the way.

3) Some of long-term transportatoin planning (SANDAG?) talks of getting rail up to Otay Mesa, presumably in one of the winding canyons up from the San Ysidro station area, reaching mesa around Gateway and Heritage, for direct rail carload service and a logistics park - a la Fontana. They mention pursuing government funding.

4) Would old Imperial Beach/Coronado Branch be a viable alternative to current trolley running, utilizing some kind of connection where the trolley line turns east? Cut over between Main and Palm Avenue, run alongside the trolley to S.Y. Needs a crossing of some marsh lands (critters would like that), over I-5, then alongside trolley for about 4 miles. (Hey, if you're going to spend tax dollars, why not dream big?)

Can anyone tell me about how much traffic is carried on the railroad in California? I thought just about all their work was only bringing sand from Mexico to California? Do they actually interchange product with the UP? Thanks

Thanks to all for the additional info. This railroad has always fascinated me. I go to Campo every chance I get when I'm in Souther Cal.

Bryce

They still interchange with the Union Pacific Railroad at Seeley, CA. I will do some research at work if I get a chance to see if they are still getting cars from W. Colton to El Centro.

The UP interchange is fairly active. Mostly building products, rice, and beans bound for Mexican destinations.

Thanks again for the info, but how do you get to the Sacatone Lookout? .....I tried Google, but got no love.

I may be up at Campo tomorrow, and would like to see that lookout!

Thanks.

Bryce