Western Railroad Discussion > Questions for Fred Frailey and MDO about latest Trains:

Thanks Fred for a great article and insights into the Sunset Route. I am hoping both you and MDO (or any UP rails from West Colton) can provide additional input/insights.

1) Gila Sub diagram, p. 35, mentions the western portion of the Phoenix Sub currently shut down might reopen in 2010. What is the reasoning for this; why wait until 2010? Won’t the new Red Rock yard on the Gila Sub feed most manifest traffic to Phoenix, so why open the Phoenix Sub? Would there be more traffic than a single Roseville – Phoenix manifest?
2) More on Phoenix: is there a future of a Phoenix intermodal ramp again, or will they stick to their guns with Tucson? Looks like BNSF is kicking UP’s rear for AZ intermodal.
3) West Colton: adding 10 bowl tracks was noted as not addressing trimming conflicts and departure yard lack-of-capacity. How will this be solved? Any more departure tracks planned? UP added 4 long departure south of the bowl and departure yard 2 years ago: have these helped? Did the reconfiguration of the old departure yard then help or hurt? Trim cuts for the 4 new tracks need to be pulled further east, onto the grade east of Pepper Avenue. Is that a problem? If it’s a success, would it help to add more long departure tracks? Looking at Google Maps, it looks like 10 new bowl tracks would leave enough room for another 4 long departure tracks. Could these also be used as arrival tracks when the receiving yard on the west is full? Once a track opened up there, the hump engines could pull a train west, then push back to the hump. Any value to that?
4) Fred mentioned Montclair getting a new manifest yard. Now it’s small with 7 tracks about 2500’ long. What would this expansion look like, and what would be the primary function?
5) If West Colton would not build long-haul manifests, how would haulers return? IE: if the Anaheim hauler is returning, does it have cars pre-blocked for Red Rock and Roseville, and split at West Colton without humping, or would Montclair serve that purpose?

I’ve lamented that, up until around 2002 when truck terminals were built just west of Cedar Avenue on the south side of the receiving yard, UP could have added 15 to 20 tracks, about 6500’ in length, by exercising options they had on the land that was at one time owned by SP. (SP sold it when they lost the vehicle traffic to either ATSF or UP around 1990) . The car repair functions could have been moved to that side too, and even if that isn’t the best set-up for them, it would have freed up for a greater bowl expansion (the originally planned 24 additional bowl tracks) plus 8 to 10 long departure tracks on the south side of the bowl, similar to how UP has added the 4. I wonder if that would have given UP a yard with a 3000 humps a day capacity? Maybe MDO can shine some light on if that truly would have helped or not.

Thanks for any feedback.

BruceDGillings Wrote:
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> 4) Fred mentioned Montclair getting a new manifest
> yard. Now it’s small with 7 tracks about
> 2500’ long. What would this expansion look
> like, and what would be the primary function?
>
> Thanks for any feedback.

I had been told (by a very high up source) that Montclair was going to be expanded and most of the manifest traffic from City of Industry was going to be moved there. CofI was suppose to be rebuilt and be strictly intermodal. I have been told that the monies for these projects had been deverted to mainline upgrades and Montclair and CofI are on the back burner for now.-BMT

BruceDGillings Wrote:
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> Thanks Fred for a great article and insights into
> the Sunset Route. I am hoping both you and MDO
> (or any UP rails from West Colton) can provide
> additional input/insights.

Oh,boy,

Wait till I look up my notes; I believe that I can.

And, maybe I should read the latest Trains article first. I got mine yesterday, but have not read it yet,
too involved with the NWP/Port of Humbolt Bay.





mdo

I haven't had a chance to read my TRAINS yet either. However, just from the questions being asked, sounds like there's room for another article on the subject! It seems like all we hear and/or read is negative about the Union Pacific these days. I have many friends that work for the U.P. and, yes, the morale isn't great. Is there ANYTHING positive to report? Maybe after reading the Sunset article I'll have my answer. What happened to the U.P. of old?

stampedej Wrote:
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What happened to the U.P. of old?


The Missouri Pacific. That's what happened.

JDE

Reopening the west end of the Phoenix Line I'd put in the same probability mix of reopening the Tennessee Pass line as a through route. Possible, but unlikely. After all, UP has solved its Phoenix problem in terms of service reliability.

Phoenix intermodal ramp: I just have to guess, but here goes: Phoenix is a one-driver haul from LA-Long Beach and thus not economical for shippers. You need more distance OR a truly disciplined UP operation to make this work. NS makes Savannah-Atlanta (250 miles) work but that shuttle is very focused and super-managed. From the east, BNSF has the UPS/scheduled truck franchise to Phoenix and the ideal route structure and UP simply has not felt it economical to invade Phoenix from that direction. Probably 25 UP marketing people are seeing this and wishing they could risk their jobs by weighing in. Well, reply to me privately and I'll pass on what you say, because I am curious, too. I may be missing something.

West Colton: No comment.

Montclair: Not sure on how this would work; I didn't get into that level of detail during my reporting.

West Colton and eastbound haulers: UP people were frank that they have not thought everything through completely because there are so many moving part to Operation Sunset. But logic suggests it would be a simple thing to run (mostly empty) haulers back to West Colton with the fewest possible blocks (i.e., Roseville, Red Rock AZ, shorts) and break trains and create eastbound trains there on a few tracks. Just my thinking aloud.

Fred