Western Railroad Discussion > Foul weather and Foul language

Empty Holcomb holds the main at Lamar, Co. as the HDENKCK heads into the hole.Dispatcher had us on Ignore for almost 2 hours as this southbound at Las Animas Jct hits the 40 curve headed for Texas. When she did answer, she wanted us to set out two motors in the stock track (out of service) and still try to make it on our hours of service. We ran the set out and had 20 minutes to spare tying up. Just another day in Paradise.

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Don't you just hate it when they don't answer their radio!! I had a 45 minute move turn into an hour and a half out at Adamana, AZ last Friday, all because the DS wouldn't answer the radio when we needed permission to change directions in the OS(control point). I have gotten to the point where I won't answer them right away when they call me, and if they ask why I didn't answer, I say "I'm sorry, that must have been frustrating to you".

I can certainly share your frustration in just sitting there. I deal with that just trying to drive anywhere on the SoCal freeways. But moving or not, aren't you still "on the clock"?

And now try and look at things from the poor dispatchers point of view. In this great big wide world, I can think of few other occupations that are more thankless, unrespected, overworked, or underappreciated. There he is, under constant pressure from managment to move as much freight as efficiently as possible at the lowest cost. At the same time, he (or she) is constantly getting barked at by salespeople and customers wanting to know where their shipment is, often wanting to add, subtract, or modify their shipments. And at the same time, every crew thinks he is the only one that the dispatcher has to deal with. So it's always tempting (and easiest) to simply assume you're being ignored. When in reality, he's probably checking his "flow charts" and dealing with 20 other cranky crews and shippers/consignees. You, the crew (or driver, or whatever) is fixated solely on your own disposition. The dispatcher has a much, MUCH bigger picture to look at than just you worrying about your next home cooked meal.

Yet there is only so much track and they only have two hands, two sets of eyes and ears and only one brain. If things are moving "smoothly" to where the crews are always happy, it means there isn't enough business. On the other hand, let him try and try his luck and ramrod through just one more train than should probably be on the rails and let there be one derailment. The blame for it will fall squarely and entirely into that damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't dispatchers lap.

Lighten up a bit bro.

Des-Lab Wrote:
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> I can certainly share your frustration in just
> sitting there. I deal with that just trying to
> drive anywhere on the SoCal freeways. But moving
> or not, aren't you still "on the clock"?
>
> And now try and look at things from the poor
> dispatchers point of view. In this great big wide
> world, I can think of few other occupations that
> are more thankless, unrespected, overworked, or
> underappreciated. There he is, under constant
> pressure from managment to move as much freight as
> efficiently as possible at the lowest cost. At the
> same time, he (or she) is constantly getting
> barked at by salespeople and customers wanting to
> know where their shipment is, often wanting to
> add, subtract, or modify their shipments. And at
> the same time, every crew thinks he is the only
> one that the dispatcher has to deal with. So it's
> always tempting (and easiest) to simply assume
> you're being ignored. When in reality, he's
> probably checking his "flow charts" and dealing
> with 20 other cranky crews and
> shippers/consignees. You, the crew (or driver, or
> whatever) is fixated solely on your own
> disposition. The dispatcher has a much, MUCH
> bigger picture to look at than just you worrying
> about your next home cooked meal.
>
> Yet there is only so much track and they only have
> two hands, two sets of eyes and ears and only one
> brain. If things are moving "smoothly" to where
> the crews are always happy, it means there isn't
> enough business. On the other hand, let him try
> and try his luck and ramrod through just one more
> train than should probably be on the rails and let
> there be one derailment. The blame for it will
> fall squarely and entirely into that
> damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't dispatchers
> lap.
>
> Lighten up a bit bro.

Hey Des-Lab...

The DS knows what time he reports to work, when he's finished and what his days off will be. Not so in train service. The DS gets paid for eight hours on the job each day. The train crew gets pretty much the same whether it takes them five hours or twelve to get from point A to (or nearer) point B.

The DS generally works in a nice climate-controlled office. It never smells like a porta-potty, the seats are comfortable and it always has working a/c. He doesn't need to get up out of his comfortable chair and walk a mile or two to check a train in the snow. He doesn't get ulcers thinking the guy he is working with may fall asleep.

The good DS is one who gets out and rides his territory and knows the crews. Not many of them around...anywhere.

So if the train service guys are a little irritated when the DS takes his time answering the radio, the irritation of train crews is completely understandable.

Alco251 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Hey Des-Lab...
>
> The DS knows what time he reports to work, when
> he's finished and what his days off will be. Not
> so in train service. The DS gets paid for eight
> hours on the job each day. The train crew gets
> pretty much the same whether it takes them five
> hours or twelve to get from point A to (or nearer)
> point B.
>
> The DS generally works in a nice
> climate-controlled office. It never smells like a
> porta-potty, the seats are comfortable and it
> always has working a/c. He doesn't need to get up
> out of his comfortable chair and walk a mile or
> two to check a train in the snow. He doesn't get
> ulcers thinking the guy he is working with may
> fall asleep.
>
> The good DS is one who gets out and rides his
> territory and knows the crews. Not many of them
> around...anywhere.
>
> So if the train service guys are a little
> irritated when the DS takes his time answering the
> radio, the irritation of train crews is completely
> understandable.

Thank You Alco251,

You're right, I'm on trip rate so I make the same no matter how long it takes. I was at the rear of my train with absolutely no shelter and it was snowing. For the DS to take 15 min. to answer the radio is ridiculous! This happened 3 times. I don't care what the hell this DS is doing, he has a job to do and that is to dispatch trains on our Subdivision period. But Des-Lab doesn't work for the railroad, so he has no clue what it's like! Nothing like the arm chair railroader!

I know that before I retired a couple of years ago, we had a daylight dispatcher that wouldn't answer his phone for 30 minutes sometimes. You know why? HE WAS PAYING HIS PERSONAL BILLS! and letting us just sit. So I sure as hell can sympathize with you.

V

SLOCONDR

when i was dispatching, there were reasons that the radios would not be answered:

- roadmaster calls and wants to put a 25 mph slow order out in a track bulletin in multiple main territory. you had better believe i wasn't answering any radios. in fact, i may have turned all of the "tone" volumes down so i could concentrate and not screw-up the track bulletin by making sure the speed restriction was on the right track and at the right m.p. sure would suck to have a 70 mph train blow through a 25mph restriction because i had it on the wrong track or the m.p. #'s were reversed............

- the "D" car (rail defect detector). if you are running one on these on your territory, you do nothing but issue track and time and try to get the thing off of your screen a.s.a.p. this involves issuing multiple authorities and you need to pay attention or somebody gets hurt or you fired. this usually results in all of your radio towers "lit-up" with people waiting for you to answer while the "D" cars obtain and release their authorities.

- answering a "emergency" radio call and dealing with the aftermath. didn't happen all that often, but when it did, the other radio channels would not be answered until the emergencty was dealt with.

- if numerous radio channels were toned, i would have to prioritize which one i would answer. if train called on radio tower "A" and i knew i wasn't gonna give him authority to leave his location for a while (due to meets, m.o.w., etc.) i would answer other channels where i could move something.

these are just a few of the reasons why radio channels are not answered. of course, the obvious reasons are that some dispatchers just don't care or have limited abilities. those dispatchers should be dealt with by the chiefs/corridor managers but i also worked with some "clueless" chiefs/corridor managers.

when i was a conductor and later when i went into engine service i would try to put myself back in the "chair" and not get frustrated with what appeared to be incompetent dispatching. sometimes it was tough to do with the screwed up hours and being a "12-hr babysitter."

66

Were bound to hear the wrath of crackpot, er, jackpot, if any more of this dispatcher bashing goes on.

You called it a defect car. Some call it a Sperry Car when it is indeed a yellow SRS vehicle.
I remember Ed King (fmr DS) said once in Trains that the correct dispatcher's term was "DAMNED Sperry car."

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> when i was dispatching, there were reasons that
> the radios would not be answered:
>
> ->
> - answering a "emergency" radio call and dealing
> with the aftermath. didn't happen all that often,
> but when it did, the other radio channels would
> not be answered until the emergencty was dealt
> with.
>
> - if numerous radio channels were toned, i would
> have to prioritize which one i would answer. if
> train called on radio tower "A" and i knew i
> wasn't gonna give him authority to leave his
> location for a while (due to meets, m.o.w., etc.)
> i would answer other channels where i could move
> something.
>
>Is it not possible to select all the towers the DS is using, so that all trains know that proirity radio trafffic IS being handled somwhere in the Sub-division? Like some polcie agencies do. And/or add an outgoing "frequency busy" beep on the non-involved towers?

Ed in Peoria, AZ

It's kinda funny now. She answered the train going up the hill, the track rider and the next two trains, but she ignored us. This all happened in less than 30 minutes. So, it wasn't like she had to be somewhere else.

hey sd45x,

if from a trainman/engineer's point of view she is that bad, just imagine what a bummer it is to sit next to her for 8 hrs..........

66

You get a lot of respect from people whey you try to take care of them. I was a technician in the telecommunications business. I tried to take care of the tech that were out in the bad weather or at a customers location with the customer breathing down their neck. Most of the techs I worked with knew this and respected me for it. You do the best you can and sometimes it's just not enough.

Our old phone system was an old key system and if you knew what you were doing you could modify it so that you could push more than one button down. It let you answer other calls if you were already talking to someone else. Then they replaced the phone with some "modern" equipment and you start operating with one hand tied behind your back. You just do the best you can with the junk, or make that "equipment" they give you. It makes you look like the bad guy.

John

Regardless of what some may think is/isn't going on, fact remains that dispatchers are busy people and some train crews usually don't see the "big picture" beyond what their locomotive cab window and radio range lets them see or hear. So don't label all dispatchers because some simply can't keep up with the pace of a busy desk or stay on top of radios.

On a different note, when did they change LA Junction to favor the coal trains? Last train I chased in that area spent several miles attempting to regain speed lost from the diverging turnout at the junction.

KK

Challenger3985 Wrote:
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> Were bound to hear the wrath of crackpot, er,
> jackpot, if any more of this dispatcher bashing
> goes on.


Fully understandable the frustration of train crews this time of year. I hear it in their voices each time they tone me up to wonder if they're getting stopped for a meet or if the switch just won't line.

Believe me, your concerns strike home with those of us in the chair. Life would be a lot better for everyone--train crews as well as dispatchers--if the company managers adequately staffed the crew boards, paid attention to what was happening out in the field when building windows, updating lineups, and deciding to call crews out in the middle of the night to pick up grain trains when it's blowing snow and ice and what trains are out on the road can actually move. And we wonder why the company is caught so flat-footed each year when winter begins. . .and how a company so revered by Warren Buffet for its management can expect to run trains across the middle of the country in the dead of winter with no snow melters on their switches!

The other night, I was completely at the mercy of "The Big Yard" who insisted on departing a non-clearing train,facing other non-clearing trains I either had to tie down on line or hold back 100 miles from their end terminal to make a meet. This amid 8" of new snow, roads snowed in so vans can't transport relief crews or get expiring crews off trains, across a railroad where of the 10 sidings I have to work with, only four have switch heaters, and three of those four were blocked with either dead trains the yard had no interest in dragging in or with cuts of cars reduced off other trains in order for the yard to take SOME traffic in.

At any one time, I had four trains stopped hand-lining switches; a derailment on the switch lead of my division point yard; a grain train that had lost 2 of his four lead units and wasn't sure he could make the grade; Amtrak reporting an abandoned car next to the tracks that could've been in an accident; a track light that could be a broken rail; and a train stopped with a POTENTIAL warm journal that may or may not have to set out the car on line, even though the crayon didn't melt and the detector temperature was barely 100 degrees and no one could make a decision on whether the car could be set out at the crew change point or had to be set out right there. . . . Frozen switches? Try getting more than one MOW worker out in less than three hours to start digging in the middle of the night. Four hundred miles of railroad, 99 control points, and a dozen trains--a dozen doesn't sound like much, but when each of them have to start hand-lining switches and they get low on their hours of service and there are no vans available to transport relief crews. . .well, let's just say that the level of frustration is as high in the dispatching offices as it is out in the field.

I agree, two hours to answer a radio call is unacceptable. But I'd guess that dispatcher was probably not out having a smoke or b.s.'ing with friends, but rather feeling buried in the amount of BS dumped upon them with the onset of winter.

If that makes me a crackpot, so be it. We don't like having you guys out there any long than you have to be, either, but it's really beyond my abilty to decree that two hundred miles of second mainline is magically created in front of your train to whisk you home without delay. Most of the train crews know that; there are a few out there, I guess, who don't.

Could you imagine if the object of this thread was an air traffic controller?

Lane.