Western Railroad Discussion > black widow question

It had never occurred to me until recently that the SP Black Widow scheme was probably applied to high nose units only. Was there ever a low nose Black Widow? AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

The PHL has/had one!-BMT

agentatascadero Wrote:
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> It had never occurred to me until recently that
> the SP Black Widow scheme was probably applied to
> high nose units only. Was there ever a low nose
> Black Widow? AA

Yeah, F units!

Yah, RS-11's.

I don't remember any...those Alcos that came in 1956 were hi nose in the old sheme.

agentatascadero Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It had never occurred to me until recently that
> the SP Black Widow scheme was probably applied to
> high nose units only. Was there ever a low nose
> Black Widow? AA


(forwarded from Topper)

Answer: The reincarnated NWP fairly accurately replicated the 'Black Widow' scheme on their chop-nosed GP9s.

According to Jim Boyd in Southern Pacific in Color Volume 2 the last black widow delivered new was RS11 5865 in August 1959. It was a high nose unit.

If you're talking about new locomotives delivered with a low nose with the black widow paint scheme, no. And I don't consider an F unit a low nose unit. It comes close, but not close enough.

JDE

SP4436 Wrote:
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> According to Jim Boyd in Southern Pacific in Color
> Volume 2 the last black widow delivered new was
> RS11 5865 in August 1959. It was a high nose
> unit.


Actually the only RS11's delivered in black widow colors were the high nose 5723-5729. The next group, the 5845-5865 were delivered in the red and gray with high nose. The first and only low nose RS11's were the 5866-5871, also in red and gray. Note, the SP also purchased the three Alco demonstrators which were renumbered to 5720-5722, and repainted in black widow colors by the SP.

Ive been duped! You're right, SP RS11 5729 was the last factory paint black widow. But the 5865, delivered in the bloody nose scheme, was apparently the last high nose unit delivered to the railroad. Sorry to give any misinformation, darn that Jim Boyd!

Steamjocky Wrote:
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> If you're talking about new locomotives delivered
> with a low nose with the black widow paint scheme,
> no. And I don't consider an F unit a low nose
> unit. It comes close, but not close enough.
>
> JDE

JDE, Thanks. And I was talking about units as delivered. It does occur to me that SP may have received low nose units from the factory prior to the institution of the Bloody Nose "program", but also I thought these units would have been delivered in the Bloody Nose. Could it be? AA

Stanford White
Carmel Valley, CA

Oh well, it was worth a try. I remember that some of the RS-11's
were delivered in Widow just couldn't remember if that included
the later low noses. I really should go unpack my books.