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Western Railroad Discussion > ES44 turbocharger failuresDate: 07/12/09 20:58 ES44 turbocharger failures Author: SooLine700 A new bulletin at work yesterday brought to our attention that some the turbochargers on CN ES44DC have been failing catastrophically when the locomotives restart after a automatic shutdown initiated by the smart start system. We are not to restart the engines until we talk to someone in the mechanical department and also are to avoid walking alongside the engineroom compartment while the locomotive is under full load. Have other railroads had a similar bulletin warning of such problem with their fleet?
Date: 07/12/09 21:07 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: Pacific_Division Have not heard this yet on BNSF. But it would be really cool to see.
Kevin Date: 07/12/09 21:13 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: Pinlifter I did see a safety bulletin about the issue at a BNSF service facility. Something to do with a third party part.
Date: 07/12/09 21:40 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: NdeM Yes, BNSF has a safety bulletin out for this issue. It seems that the rotating parts of the turbochargers have failed, and broken through the casing and hood. In fact, I believe they even use the term "catastrophic failure." The affected ES44's are being taken out of service.
And we too are supposed to avoid walking along the long-hood while above run 4. Date: 07/12/09 21:53 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: ats90mph It's kinda like going to Subway and saying you don't want it toasted, but they do it anyway. So GE is just like a "Sandwich Artist" that just hit the bowl before their shift.
Date: 07/12/09 23:53 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: foamer Here is the text from the BNSF Safety Briefing, the engines have not been taken out of service yet, so BNSF says do not walk along the outside of any Gevos, until they figure which ones are affected:
SafetyBriefing July 11, 2009 GE Evolution Series Turbochargers SB-2009-03G On another Class 1 railroad there have been two recent turbocharger failures on General Electric Evolution Series locomotives which resulted in portions of the turbine rotating assembly penetrating the turbocharger case and exiting the locomotive carbody. The root cause analysis into the failures is still in process but preliminary investigation has revealed that the failures that have occurred are due to catastrophic failure of turbocharger shafts which were produced by one of two of GE’s suppliers for that part. The suspect turbocharger shafts affect new Evolution Series locomotives produced from January 2007 to March 2009 as well as any Evolution locomotive which has had a turbocharger replaced due to failure or engine change during the same time period. Over the next several days the specific locomotives containing suspect parts will be identified and those locomotives will be removed from service pending turbocharger replacement. Until such time ALL EMPLOYEES SHOULD NOT ACCESS EXTERNAL WALKWAYS OR BE IN THE PROXIMITY TO THE LONG HOOD AREA OF ANY GE EVOLUTION SERIES LOCOMOTIVE (BNSF 5718-7799) WHICH IS OPERATING OR BEING LOAD TESTED UNDER POWER IN NOTCH 4 OR ABOVE. Avoid these areas REMEMBER -- All BNSF employees are empowered to work safely. If you think a condition is unsafe, protect it, report it, assist in correcting it, or use your expertise to provide a better and safer way. BNSF Safety Vision ... Insider Date: 07/13/09 01:48 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: LVFoamer My Brother, A BNSF Foreman, Said its not the turbos but the pre oiling system for the smart start that is doing this. They fixed the software problem but for many turbos its to late and they have already damaged the thrust washer by dry spinning the turbo on smart start ups. Now the turbine shaft is walking around and just waiting for the moment to snap or hit the housing. When it snaps I hear on the GEVOS they where coming out of the impeller housing and throwing some parts around. The GEVO has a smaller turbine side on the turbo but a larger compressor side then the old FDL motors. This means the turbo sees more air and boost then the older stuff with a smaller shaft. But it has a ceramic ball bearing setup that should blow the old turbos away. I guess its more fragile then the old one.. I know its almost twice the cost... Now who pays this bill????
Date: 07/13/09 02:40 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: gobbl3gook LVFoamer wrote
>>Said its not the turbos but the pre oiling system for the smart start that is doing this. They fixed the software problem...<< So it's a computer issue, not a prelube pump issue? (Prelube pump mechanism works fine mechanically, but it's not getting the correct signal from the computer?) Can anyone else confirm this? Thanks in advance, Ted in WA Date: 07/13/09 04:37 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: junctiontower LVFoamer Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > But it has a ceramic ball bearing setup that > should blow the old turbos away. I guess its more > fragile then the old one.. I know its almost twice > the cost... Now who pays this bill???? This sounds about like Mack Trucks. In order to run turbos under the extreme heat conditions brought about by the ever tightening noose of emmision regulations, Mack(Volvo)was forced to go to ceramic impellers and other internal parts. A reman turbo that was $400.00 just a few years ago is now $2500.00, and if anything, they are a lot LESS reliable. Who pays the bill? Well, since they usually fail JUST out of warranty, the sucker, I mean customer bends over and grabs the ankles. Date: 07/13/09 09:48 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: proudfoamer And why are G.E.'s are out selling EMD's?
Date: 07/13/09 09:56 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: skinem A little bird said 'cheap cheap'.
Date: 07/13/09 13:42 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: dreese_us Cheap costs up front, but you end up paying more in maintenance costs. Older EMD's last longer, time will tell on the newer models.
How are the UP SD 70's holding up? Date: 07/13/09 14:17 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: rehunn Most likely it's a lag time issue between the time of the prelube
start and the engine start. Turbo's use hydrodynamic bearings so no hydro no dynamic!! Date: 07/13/09 18:00 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: ajy6b Just another reason why GE's are called toasters. There smart start system should be called the smart arson system. It makes you wonder about the quality of all these third world suppliers for parts.
Date: 07/13/09 21:22 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: nick_gully Maybe the Evolution series are just... evolving?
I think the sales rate has more to do with GE Finance (the largest $$$ portion of GE) being ready and waiting to offer financing on anything they make, something EMD cannot offer. Date: 07/13/09 23:42 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: dt8089 junctiontower Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > LVFoamer Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > This sounds about like Mack Trucks. In order to > run turbos under the extreme heat conditions > brought about by the ever tightening noose of > emmision regulations, Mack(Volvo)was forced to go > to ceramic impellers and other internal parts. A > reman turbo that was $400.00 just a few years ago > is now $2500.00, and if anything, they are a lot > LESS reliable. Who pays the bill? Well, since > they usually fail JUST out of warranty, the > sucker, I mean customer bends over and grabs the > ankles. I just had turbo failure on my Mack truck with a Volvo motor. Dealer quoted $2974.00 for a new one. Dan Tracy Date: 07/14/09 04:29 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: junctiontower Yeah, just had to get one yesterday for a Mack CX with an ASET 460 engine. $2952.95 MV Preferred fleet pricing. :(
Date: 07/14/09 07:03 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: cs16 nick_gully Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Maybe the Evolution series are just... evolving? > >Kind of like V"GE"R? Date: 07/14/09 12:01 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: truxtrax junctiontower Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, just had to get one yesterday for a Mack CX > with an ASET 460 engine. $2952.95 MV Preferred > fleet pricing. :( Another reason to buy Detroit Diesel 4 stroke or Caterpillar! Butch, , , , don't even like Cummins anymore Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/09 12:02 by truxtrax. Date: 07/14/09 14:10 Re: ES44 turbocharger failures Author: sixaxle In years past I have seen Turbos fly apart on Cummins VTA 1710 engines and VTA 2300 in large off highway equipment. Sure made for a spectacular stack fire when it happened at night, usually shot about twenty feet into the air with a 8" dia stack pipe. At that time Cummins used a device called a "aneroid valve" in the fuel system to control Turbo Lag. These engines were usually installed in larger front end loaders of 12 yard capacity or larger.
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