Western Railroad Discussion > Track Soft Spots: what is the railroad perspective?

This year it seems like the weather and cutbacks in spending have created a few more soft spots, on the rails as well as the nation's highways. We all know what it is like to hit a hole in pavement at 65 mph, but what is it like in a locomotive? Does 200+ tons of steel lurching down and sideways have much of a pucker factor?

The soft spot in the photo (BNSF Hannibal sub mainline at Louisiana, MO) is not nearly as bad as some along the mainlines that run along the Mississippi River, but how much is allowable before it becomes a priority to fix beyond just getting rid of the slow order?

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as i remember it, a soft or "rough" spot on the track reported by a train crew to the dispatcher on the u.p. received a 10 mph slow order until m.o.w. checked it. it may be different now......

66

The train in the photo was probably doing close to 30 mph.

And looks to be on a switch as well? Christ that would make me pucker up a bit....

When discovered or reported, "fix it".

Macster Wrote:
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> And looks to be on a switch as well? Christ that
> would make me pucker up a bit....


Yes, on a hand switch.

Last year, there was one on a siding that a loaded coal train went across at about walking speed, and I still thought they were going to dump a car on the side even at that speed.

What it looks like in the picture is "Pumping". A soft spot in the ballast. You will see a light colored mud around the ties after the train has passed and there should have been a slow order on it as deep as it looks.

There is a place on the SP Main, now UP, where you can watch trains moving 50-40 MPH, pushing the track up in front of the train. (something like this picture) The first time I saw it I thought the train was going in the ditch. Later I found out it has been this way forever and their are no plans to change it. The whole area is sort of a swamp or in Calif., they call it "Wet Lands".
It is really weird to watch it ahead of the lead unit, but you don't feel it all on the engine.


Nudge

When the pumping MUD turns 'white' that's when u have real problem. That mean there's nothing under the mud but a hole.

I was on an old Santa Fe GP-30 one time and hit one of those at about 55 mph. It's springs bottomed out so completely, the bottom of the pilot hit the rail & threw sparks out both sides. Holes like that are what's wrong with my back today. And with the bigger, heavier GE's we use now. it seems like at about 50mph, the distance between truck centers makes them bounce up & down end to end until they get finally smooth out on their own. Best to try to stand up a little until things smooth out.

kushtaka Wrote:
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> This year it seems like the weather and cutbacks
> in spending have created a few more soft spots, on
> the rails as well as the nation's highways. We all
> know what it is like to hit a hole in pavement at
> 65 mph, but what is it like in a locomotive? Does
> 200+ tons of steel lurching down and sideways have
> much of a pucker factor?
>
> The soft spot in the photo (BNSF Hannibal sub
> mainline at Louisiana, MO) is not nearly as bad as
> some along the mainlines that run along the
> Mississippi River, but how much is allowable
> before it becomes a priority to fix beyond just
> getting rid of the slow order?


You would think that as the rail moves up and down with the weight going over it, especially where there is a high spot adjacent to the dip, as in the photo, that it would eventually fatigue the steel and the rail would break. That could be catastrophic!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/10 16:10 by mkostecky.

The track inspector has to look at it and determine what needs to be done, add some ballast and do some tamping and possibly change the ties.

bnsftrucker Wrote:
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> The track inspector has to look at it and
> determine what needs to be done, add some ballast
> and do some tamping and possibly change the ties.

Or you can do what bnsftrucker and I helped out with yesterday. Completely cut out a piece of the track, dig out the fouled ballast, put the track panel back in, dump rock and tamp.

Try being on Amtrak at 79 or even 90 and hitting one of these....

My father and I were on the Capital Limited in Ohio several years ago and hit a soft spot like this at track speed. The Superliners bottomed out so bad they actually stopped and inspected the train to make sure everything was OK. The bounce was so bad it actually spilled drinks in the lounge and dining cars! I feel like that day could have gone very differently and thankful it didn't....

Hank

And what sucks is, that makes it look like it's Amtrak's fault. I recall riding on the SWC from Albuquerque, NM to Williams, AZ was a bit of a bone rattler back in 2001...

Besides what a human feels, soft spots like this can contribute to couplers coming apart, which is sometimes a precursor to derailments.

pdxfan Wrote:
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> Besides what a human feels, soft spots like this
> can contribute to couplers coming apart, which is
> sometimes a precursor to derailments.

Had that happen to the Juice Train out here in SC at the beginning of the year. Wasn't a defect, but was enough to uncouple the train. If you get your hands on an FRA book, it will give you all the measurements your allowed for each class of track for each surface issue(i.e. Crosslevel, warp, profile, etc). Your allowed a little more of a "dip" when both rails fall, instead of just one rail. For instance, Class 4 track, your allowed 2 inches for a profile(both rails), but only 1 1/4" for a cross level(one rail).

Tim Rich
S. Ogden, UT

Some of my most memorable incidents in my RR carrier were due to soft spots.
Try riding on the bench in the back observation portion of the Chairman and CEO's fancy business car at 70 MPH just after a heavy rain and drop into a spot like the one in the photo on the leaving end of an open deck bridge. The bridge approaches or "dumps" were the most suspectable spots for this kind of spot to develop.
The car attendant had just set a glass of water in a long stemmed glass in front of the Chairman and was back in the aisle when we hit the "soft spot" so he was able to grab on the the doorway to keep from falling.
As if in slow motion the glass, water an all, bounced up over the Chairmans right shoulder not spilling a drop and landed in the lap of the VP of Traffic sitting in the chair behind him.
This spot was rough enough to uncouple the train if it had not been for tight lock couplers.
Ah the good old days when every day was a test of survival.

JLY Wrote:
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> Some of my most memorable incidents in my RR
> carrier were due to soft spots.
> Try riding on the bench in the back observation
> portion of the Chairman and CEO's fancy business
> car at 70 MPH just after a heavy rain and drop
> into a spot like the one in the photo on the
> leaving end of an open deck bridge. The bridge
> approaches or "dumps" were the most suspectable
> spots for this kind of spot to develop.
> The car attendant had just set a glass of water in
> a long stemmed glass in front of the Chairman and
> was back in the aisle when we hit the "soft spot"
> so he was able to grab on the the doorway to keep
> from falling.
> As if in slow motion the glass, water an all,
> bounced up over the Chairmans right shoulder not
> spilling a drop and landed in the lap of the VP
> of Traffic sitting in the chair behind him.
> This spot was rough enough to uncouple the train
> if it had not been for tight lock couplers.
> Ah the good old days when every day was a test of
> survival.

Saved by the VP of Traffic's lap. It would not have been a good trip there after if it landed on the Chairman's shoulder, eh JLY?

WAF Wrote:
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> JLY Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Some of my most memorable incidents in my RR
> > carrier were due to soft spots.
> > Try riding on the bench in the back observation
> > portion of the Chairman and CEO's fancy
> business
> > car at 70 MPH just after a heavy rain and drop
> > into a spot like the one in the photo on the
> > leaving end of an open deck bridge. The bridge
> > approaches or "dumps" were the most suspectable
> > spots for this kind of spot to develop.
> > The car attendant had just set a glass of water
> in
> > a long stemmed glass in front of the Chairman
> and
> > was back in the aisle when we hit the "soft
> spot"
> > so he was able to grab on the the doorway to
> keep
> > from falling.
> > As if in slow motion the glass, water an all,
> > bounced up over the Chairmans right shoulder
> not
> > spilling a drop and landed in the lap of the
> VP
> > of Traffic sitting in the chair behind him.
> > This spot was rough enough to uncouple the
> train
> > if it had not been for tight lock couplers.
> > Ah the good old days when every day was a test
> of
> > survival.
>
> Saved by the VP of Traffic's lap. It would not
> have been a good trip there after if it landed on
> the Chairman's shoulder, eh JLY?

True, It was a few trips later the orange juice went down his shoulder and back. The tossed green salad for the VPO wound up in his lap. This time it was train handling on the rear of No. 21.