Western Railroad Discussion > Rules Exams

A couple of questions about rules exams. Are employees in train service re-tesetd periodically? Also, back in my youth, in the vicinity of the Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe Rwy. Middle Division, I was once told that there was a certain Middle Division trainmaster who liked to give train service employees impromptu rules examinations. Was that a regular practice or was this TM just kind of a pain in the A$$? Is this stil done today? Thanks.

At UP, unless you have been involved in a human factor incident, you are tested every 2-3 years. If you are in a human factor incident (derailment, signal violation, injury), you are are normally required to attend a two or five day rules class as a condition of continued employment. Engineers are usually have a performance evaluation (on-board every 180 days or so).

GCOR (General Code of Operating Rules) re certification is every 2 years. Air Brake and Train Handling (Engineer)re certification is every 3 years. Also engineers must have a re qualification ride along from an RFE at least once a year, and periodic stop test (banner test, red board test, efficiency test, whatever you want to call it).

Used to be, back in the good old bad days, you had to "write" the rule book for your exam.

Now they go over the questions, tell you what the answers will be,and then when you take the test, it is a muliple choice (if an answer choice is "all of the above," it IS all of the above). And no one fails.

When I used to have to take these (biennial) it was multiple choice but you had to know the rules. The only "essay" question was that you had to write out the restricted speed rule in full verbatim.

At Amtrak we're tested yearly on rules and signals, if you're decertified you have to pass the tests again to get recertified.

There's also those Efficiency test thingys you hear about from time to time, most of which are simply observation by a manger without you knowing, some of which are scenarios created by MWD/Dispatch/Management to ensure you operate in complaint with the rules.

jackpot Wrote:
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> Now they go over the questions, tell you what the
> answers will be,and then when you take the test,
> it is a muliple choice (if an answer choice is
> "all of the above," it IS all of the above). And
> no one fails.

Well, if you'd taken one of my exams, you'd have gotten a quarter to a third of those wrong...:-)

Any decent instructor would make sure the material you will be tested on is included in the presentation, but that doesn't necessarily mean going over the specific questions. I have to honestly say I've reviewed specific questions in class before, but I didn't make a habit out of it. A few times there was a question I thought was deliberately vague to trip people up, so I made sure everyone understood EXACTLY what was being asked.

There are a couple of governing principles I was taught when writing exams:

-- You make sure the correct answer is verbatim out of the book, so there is no question that it is correct.

-- You NEVER phrase a question in the negative, i.e., to ask which answer is NOT correct...that only reinforces the wrong answer in the employee's mind.

At the time I was a rules instructor, it was a company requirement that each question be multiple-choice or true/false, evidently to prevent "disinfranchising" (lawyer's words) the less literate.

As to your comment about everybody passing, my personal policy was as long as the employee was making a genuine effort to participate in the class, I'd bend over backwards to help 'em understand the material. The primary reason for rules class isn't to pass or fail, it's to come out with a greater understanding of the rules than when you went in.

I'd make every employee go over every question they got wrong and explain to me WHY the correct answer was correct. If they had not passed the first exam (85% overall, Engineers required 100% on signals) I would allow them to come back the next day and re-take the exam a second time. If they just couldn't figure it out, that was one thing, but I saw no reason to keep an employee away from his livelihood just to put a notch in my belt.

I can count without taking off my shoes the people I had to hold out of service for failing the class. One clearly did not have a clue and I did so for his and his fellow employee's safety. Another decided to sit in the back row and read the newspaper during the presentation.

Two funny stories to finish up:

-- In one of my very first rules classes, I had an old, old head who had been railroading since beofre I was born. He started the class out by standing up and demanding to know why I thought I knew more about the rules than he did. My response was: "Well, I probably don't know as much as you do, but I do know all the answers to today's exam!!". End of discussion.

-- One afternoon going over signal aspects and indications in NORAC class I asked a Conductor (whom I used to work with) what the signal was I had up on the board (Approach Medium). His answer, with a big s**t-eating grin on his face: "Dammed if I know, they're all red when I go by 'em in the lounge car!!" Touche'!

Sorry if I took the discussion off into the weeds, just felt like rambling a bit about what I always considered my favorite days on the railroad.

NZ
Amtrak Rules Instructor 2001-2005

Rules Examinations and Efficiency tests are the two main procedures that management has to keep the tools sharp (Employees) or to sharpen up the dull ones or eliminate them from the tool box.

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I used to have to take these (biennial) it
> was multiple choice but you had to know the rules.
> The only "essay" question was that you had to
> write out the restricted speed rule in full
> verbatim.

Sounds like the SP during the W.J.Lacy days.

JLY Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rules Examinations and Efficiency tests are the
> two main procedures that management has to keep
> the tools sharp (Employees) or to sharpen up the
> dull ones or eliminate them from the tool box.

.. eliminate them from the tool box.... before they do any harm..

A couple of times, I got a letter mail stating my bi-annual check ride had been completed by reviewing a download of a recently completed trip, or something to that effect.

jackpot Wrote:
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> Used to be, back in the good old bad days, you had
> to "write" the rule book for your exam.
>

"Back then" it might have been easier to do so as rule books in general would fit in your back pocket. Today unless you aren't technically challenged you are carrying about 1000 pages (exaggeration) of rule books, train handling instructions, Hazmat documents, Sups Notices, and General Orders. I really don't feel like sitting down and writing the entire rule book for a passing grade. Restricted Speed by rule should be one of those everyone understands verbatim.

My concern is whether or not someone passes the exams. My issue is if crew members know how to apply them. More and more these days everyone is creating their own interpretation of the rules. Stuff like this gets people in a pickle.

Axy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/27/11 17:33 by Axy_Dent.

jackpot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Used to be, back in the good old bad days, you had
> to "write" the rule book for your exam.
>
> Now they go over the questions, tell you what the
> answers will be,and then when you take the test,
> it is a muliple choice (if an answer choice is
> "all of the above," it IS all of the above). And
> no one fails.

A bit different for new-hires in signal. They must pass the initial closed-booked, 150-question MWOR exam or hit the streets. After that, we have an annual MWOR class -- and no one fails.

ddg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A couple of times, I got a letter mail stating my
> bi-annual check ride had been completed by
> reviewing a download of a recently completed trip,
> or something to that effect.


As far as I'm concerned, that's laziness on the part of your supervisor. But apparently that's the way things are done now though I do not agree with that. That's not his only job. It's also his job to see not only if you know the rules, but how to apply them. By riding with you he can see if you have developed any bad habits as an engineer since your last ride and see if your skills have diminished or improved since then. He can talk to you one on one about any rule changes or revisions and be sure you understand them and again, know when, where, and how to apply them. When I rode with an engineer when I was in management, I documented EVERYTHING in a ride report and sent copies of that report to the superintendent and to, at the time, the district and general road foreman of engines. That way they could see what kind of engineer that had on their division running trains and see that I was out doing my job as I should. But what do I know? I'm a dinosaur now and don't know anything.

When it comes to rule compliance one of the rules that hardly anybody understands (at least where I work) is the headlight rule and it's so simple that all you need is a little common sense to apply the rule. Some guys have it on when it should be off while other have it off when it should be on. Then there are some who have it on bright, including the ditch lights, when it should be on dim and dim when it should be on bright. I just don't see what is so hard about complying with that rule. Is it the managers that have engineers buffaloed when it comes to the application of this rule? I have no idea.

JDE

Paul,

that's true. The new hire exam is grueling. The mid-term you had to score 85% or above on or you were washed out immediately--no ifs, ands, or buts, and no retakes. The final, if I recall correctly, you had to score at least an 90%--and it was an all-day, seven-hour exam with an essay section as well. Very thorough.


signalmaintainer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jackpot Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Used to be, back in the good old bad days, you
> had
> > to "write" the rule book for your exam.
> >
> > Now they go over the questions, tell you what
> the
> > answers will be,and then when you take the
> test,
> > it is a muliple choice (if an answer choice is
> > "all of the above," it IS all of the above).
> And
> > no one fails.
>
> A bit different for new-hires in signal. They must
> pass the initial closed-booked, 150-question MWOR
> exam or hit the streets. After that, we have an
> annual MWOR class -- and no one fails.

jackpot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Paul,
>
> that's true. The new hire exam is grueling. The
> mid-term you had to score 85% or above on or you
> were washed out immediately--no ifs, ands, or
> buts, and no retakes. The final, if I recall
> correctly, you had to score at least an 90%--and
> it was an all-day, seven-hour exam with an essay
> section as well. Very thorough.
>

A score of 85 percent or higher -- or else! A bit unnerving, and my hat's off to you, Blair. Somewhat tougher than the MWOR test. We had to score 80 percent or higher.

I wonder if that's because we have time to refer to the rule book if we have a question, whereas things are moving much more quickly and always in flux at dispatcher's desk.