Western Railroad Discussion > Are Hub Group Containers Still On BNSF

At the Museum of Science & Industry in Chicago, we have models of Hub Group containers carrying the emblems of BNSF. But looking at the latest videos, Hub Group containers, green and faded red are all over UP stack trains and not to be found in BNSF consists. What is the current status of Hub Group's containers? Are they now an exclusive to Union Pacific?

David Harrison

No HUB containers on the BNSF out of Hobart anymore, appears to be exclusive to the UP. Has been that way for at least two years now. We never saw any of the green ones on the BNSf either, it was only the red or white ones.

Mr. MRL

Hub Group switched its California business off the BNSF to the UP a while ago. The reason given was that the UP still supplies containers (i.e. its UMAX boxes) for shipper use while on the BNSF it's bring your own box.

At the time of the announcement Hub said it would continue to use BNSF for Pacific Northwest shipments due to superior transit times on the BNSF.

The models at the Museum of S&I would seem to be out of date. Whether that's enough for the museum to buy new ones (or paint the old ones) is up to them.

Interesting....That might explain why Hub Group was interested in having their models on the layout, but pulled by UP locomotives. That would be a NO-NO, given the museum's association with BNSF. But the BNSF line modeled is the BNSF from Chicago to Seattle via Minneapolis. If that line handles the red containers and the green containers, we might be able to accomodate them after all.

David Harrison

Haven't noticed any Hub containers on the BNSF Seattle or Portland trains. Usually the 53' containers are UPS, JB Hunt and Schneider National.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

Yes, Hub Group just about completely quit BNSF as BNSF stopped supplying any equipment for intermodal. Hub had many HUBU containers in the past which were part of the BNSF NACS pool which has been gone for several years. The HUBU's were controlled and used only by Hub.
Today Hub has many white and green EMP pool containers assigned to Hub with several reporting marks, I cannot remember them.
Also, Hub has their own containers leased by Hub, the HGIU boxes which are mostly red.
UMXU pool has no equipment assigned to Hub,, as Hub uses only NS in the east and UMXU is a CSX -UP pool.
All assigned Hub boxes are EMP , the UP-NS pool.
Hub may use some UMXU or CSXU boxes but they do not control them, just pay the daily rent and line haul charges.

gmojim

All very interesting. But there is a larger question: why doesn't BNSF participate in container pooling as UP does?

From what I've read, they believe in a philosophy of making it as easy as possible for a customer to transition to intermodal. It's been stated that's one reason why there is still so much traditional TOFC on BNSF -- it represents that easier transition, with no need to invest in containers and separate chassis. So, logically, wouldn't having pooled containers also be helpful to the customer and that easy transition as well?

Apologies in advance if I've missed the answer to this question, including through some searches.

UP handles all HUB business into and out of the Pacific Northwest, nothing on the BNSF.

OK, that's a change I wasn't aware of.

ironmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All very interesting. But there is a larger
> question: why doesn't BNSF participate in
> container pooling as UP does?
>
> From what I've read, they believe in a philosophy
> of making it as easy as possible for a customer to
> transition to intermodal. It's been stated that's
> one reason why there is still so much traditional
> TOFC on BNSF -- it represents that easier
> transition, with no need to invest in containers
> and separate chassis. So, logically, wouldn't
> having pooled containers also be helpful to the
> customer and that easy transition as well?
>
> Apologies in advance if I've missed the answer to
> this question, including through some searches.


Very good question. BNSF has found that they can make money with intermodal and be the best intermodal provider
without spending any money on containers and chassis and trailers. They decided to drop the management and upkeep of intermodal equipment which is expensive and just provide a locomotive, intermodal ramp, railcars, and a train crew.
The truckers, IMC's and steamship lines market the intermodal service and place their equipment on the BNSF train.

UP must pay REZ-1 to manage their EMP and UMXU container pools, and pay container and chassis lease charges each month. UP has to respond to their customers with capacity problems when containers and chassis are in short supply, which is a staff to handle customer complaints.

BNSF just says bring your own and we will haul it for you.

I have experienced both sides of this issue while working in intermodal.
My preference is to have your own equipment,and not have to rely on the EMP , UMXU, CSXU railroad pools.
Sometimes there is no equipment in these pools and you cannot handle the customers load.
If you have your own equipment, you control your own destiny.

gmojim

Not sure if it's too late to jump into this discussion. Jim, it seems UP only allows limited containers to be stacked: so far have only seen NFI, England, and just recently a very small handful of UPS stacked. All the JB Hunt boxes I've seen are on chassis on TOFC. Will that change going forward? TIA.

gmojim Wrote:
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> BNSF has found that they can
> make money with intermodal and be the best
> intermodal provider without spending any money on
> containers and chassis and trailers.....

Belated thanks, Jim, for your thoughtful answer. Makes sense, and was a possible answer I had considered. Always appreciate your experienced insights.