Western Railroad Discussion > SD&AE

After reading Steve's comments yesterday...

The SD&IV is currently in X (Dang it-can't think of the term...like limbo) They just didn't have enough revenue (carloads) and no big Corp. like SP to write off losses...altho in SD&AE days (1950s-60's -70's) they ran 30-50 car trains daily each way...Such a Cool RR in so many ways, lightweight rail, Carriso Gorge, 4 axle units including Cotton Belt, occasional bay window cabeese, being rocked (Stones, not side-to side action) in the caboose while riding thru SE SAN on the El Cajon Local (Stay AWAY from the windows!) US Customs checking seals in Campo on eastbound after trip thru Mexico (& prob. reverse at US-Mex border at San Ysidro for westbound) and much Beauty along the Line...Oops, don't forget Plaster City, the "Mecca" of the desert! A Unique RR in many ways, only RR built during WW1...I wish we'd see more pics here on TO. I kick myself for getting more interested in femme fetals in early-mid 1970's than chasing the SD&AE around Jacumba...Steve in Grossmont, CA

Here are some photos I have taken and/or collected dealing with the SD&AE through Carriso Gorge!!

The first photo borrowed from Kit Courter, I hope Kit doesn't mind!!, is of the 2 trestles outside the east end of Tunnel 6 MP 98.4, that burned
June 18, 1983 closing the line for 20+ years!

The second photo shows PSRMA GE 45 tonner 7485 in the gorge at the site of the burned trestles, the trestle in the foreground is the new, rebuilt trestle,
with the locomotive and a tank car in the background where we blasted and filled the site of the second trestle!!

You can see in Kit's photo how the trestle in the background goes out into space, whereas the fill brought the track closer into the hillside!!

The curve beyond this site is called Wally's Curve after the contractor who did the reconstruction work. This curve will be discussed later!

The third photo shows the fill work being built up, we went down 60 feet to create the base for the fill.

Mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/13 10:27 by 2720.

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Is that a tank car behind that loco?

Some more Carriso Gorge photos!!

The first photo is a boxcar laying in the gorge from the 1965 Coors derailment at MP99.

Second photo shows the same boxcar up at track level leaning towards the gorge, this photo was
taken onsite during the initial inspection and start of the clean up of this derailment!! 1965

The third photo shows the pig flat with the two loaded trailers full of COORS beer, leaning against the hillside!!
This flat car and the two trailers are down in the gorge from this spot, during an attempt to rerail the car,
the rigging cut into the trailers and once the load is damaged, the insurance automatically covers the load, and
the wreckmaster said "F**K IT, Over the side" and this equipment was dumped and is still there today!!

Mike

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6088 Wrote:
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> Is that a tank car behind that loco?

Yes it is!! But not the one you're thinking of!!
Mike

Here are three more for tonight!!

This first photo is a CZRY Freight heading east to drop off sand hoppers for loading and the 6
auto racks the UP sent us to test the tunnels through the gorge and on the rear is ex CZRY,ex SDIV
5911 heading to a new owner!! The train is crossing the Goat Canyon trestle at MP102.2!

The second photo shows the two SP boxcars that derailed in 1983 when Kyle was running the line, the car
laying on its side went over during the derailment, the upright car came to rest alongside the track,
and after being emptied of 100 pound sacks of cement, it was shoved over the side!

The third and final shot in this installment is the same train passing over some of the 7 Sisters trestles
starting at MP 103.9! These are side hill trestles built were there wasn't enough ground to cut and fill
to support the tracks!!

In this area the tracks are almost 1000 feet above the bottom of the gorge!

These last three photos were taken by the late Richard Hamilton, the creator of Lets Talk Trains Internet show!!

Enjoy

Mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/12 21:50 by 2720.

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Mike.Heres a few questions for you.How much would it actually cost to bring this line up to todays operating standards?And if you controled the purse strings would you pay to bring this beautiful railroad back to life?And would it have made a difference if a freight only rail line were built by the MTDB from San Ysidro to the Port of San Diego as well as by the Mexican Government to the Port of Encinada?

Can't believe they actually ran pigs around those curves with obvious results, and those auto racks, must have been a real crawler. IMHO this line like the exNWP up north through the Eel River Canyon has no chance whatsoever of paying for it's operating and especially maintainance costs in todays marketplace and should not even be pursued as it is money thrown to the wind. Once again IMHO. Flame away.
JB

No.. I think that's the tank car I am thinking of......

The route makes sense, the railroad doesn't. Only way to fix this, and the fix is almost as bad,
is a new line well South of the border. I mean you could fix the SD & AE but $2B would need a
whole lot of traffic to justify it.

6088 Wrote:
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> No.. I think that's the tank car I am thinking
> of......

There were two tank cars used for the compaction work outside
Tunnel 6 and this one is the survivor!!! The one your thinking of
was a bigger diameter tank!

Mike

3rdswitch Wrote:
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> Can't believe they actually ran pigs around those
> curves with obvious results, and those auto racks,
> must have been a real crawler. IMHO this line like
> the exNWP up north through the Eel River Canyon
> has no chance whatsoever of paying for it's
> operating and especially maintainance costs in
> todays marketplace and should not even be pursued
> as it is money thrown to the wind. Once again
> IMHO. Flame away.
> JB

Joe,
No need to flame away!! The derailment shown in the photo
was the ONLY one that ever happened in the gorge regarding
pigflats, and it was caused by an inexperienced engineer,
his first trip through the gorge and he applied to much power
coming out of a 20 degree curve!! This section of track
bypasses old Tunnel 7 that was abandoned in 1932. The bypass
is made up of 7 20 degree reverse curves with no transition
(spiral)curves and tangents less than 1 car length long!!
The auto racks are returning east after successfully transiting
the gorge. 5 of the 6 cars shown in the photo made it through on the
original attempt, these were 19'5" cars, the one that didn't make it
was 20' 2"!
After lowering the floor at the east end of Tunnel 19, MP104.99,
a second attempt was made and they made it through!!
A year or so later, I ran a train of double stack cars through the
gorge, all with domestic containers aboard and empty so the cars/loads
would be riding high and successfully made it through the gorge, only
slightly modifying the timbers in the portals of Tunnel 6!! These cars
went as far west as Tunnel 4, MP60, the International Tunnel at Division!!
They have some nice notches carved out by each succeeding container!!

The line HAS the potential out there to support rebuilding and upgrading
the line under the right conditions!

Mike



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/12 00:22 by 2720.

Back in the 60/70s, a couple of pigs in the consist was usual on 451/452

If you want to see the view of "The Seven Sisters" from down in the gorge, see the third photo in this thread.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2227562,2227562#2227562

And regarding the photos in the first post on THIS thread, I really like the comparison of what it looks like now compared to my photo taken 1978. Things have changed!

Kit

Kit Courter
Menefee, CA
LunarLight Photography



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/12 18:52 by CimaScrambler.

That dozer operator has either more guts or less brains than I do. Maybe both!