Western Railroad Discussion > Strike continues at Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles

See here:

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-ports-strike-continues-20121202,0,5086668.story

As an FYI the entire port complex in not shutdown but might as well be. While all the maritime carriers have been effected it appears Hanjin has been effected the most; I believe they are now diverting two ships to Port of Oakland and I think both Evergreen and Maersk already have diverted one each. Also NYK (Yusen Terminals) and China Shipping (West Basin) have reportedly diverted ships (probably others I don't know about). At least one ship was diverted to Port of Ensenada, Mexico (don't know which maritime company that was). Must cost a bundle to dray containers north from there (plus crossing the border)...

The Clerical workers have been working without a new contract for 2 years. My opinion is the ports and maritime companies thought the union would not strike during the busy season and the union called their bluff. Blame the unions all you want but some of the blame goes to both the ports and the maritime companies, who didn't tackle this issue soon enough, seemingly "kicking the can" down the road...now it has bitten them in the arse.

A hot button issue to be sure...


Allen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/12 12:20 by bradleymckay.

It's getting hits on the national news now...really tying up commerce. But I don't really blame the union on strike...bad timing for the economy, though.

They waited until after the holiday rush was done. This is actually a "slow" period.
If you were going to have a strike, now is probably a "good" time.

The terminals that are still open despite the strike are:
TraPac in San Pedro (L.A.) for MOL traffic;
and in Long Beach:
Pier A for Mediterranean Shipping (MSC), CMA CGM, Hapag-Lloyd and Zim
Pier J for COSCO
Pier C for Matson

Yesterday at Needles there were only 2 eastbound harbor stack trains east on BNSF. IIRC 10 trains would be average. The eastbound that I saw was 85% MSC traffic, the rest COSCO and Hanjin (CYKH Alliance member with COSCO). Containers from all of the above open piers were scattered on various intermodal trains from Hobart, and I didn't notice containers from any of the shutdown piers.

Yesterday at 5:30 p.m., a wbd. OOCL-bound train was staged at Needles. I could see the head end also had NYK containers, a Grand Alliance partner of OOCL. An earlier wbd. with COSCO and Hanjin containers (CYKH Alliance partners) and MSC and Maersk (partners) continued west.

The Alameda Corridor (funnels trains to UP and BNSF) on ATCS shows less traffic than normal. Anyone got UP info to report? How many eastbound stacks on the line up for West Colton?

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They waited until after the holiday rush was done.
> This is actually a "slow" period.


This is true, the 2012 international peak season is over. A majority of the goods produced overseas arrived on the west coast back in October giving distributors enough time to stock store shelves for all those post Thanksgiving "Black Friday", "Small Business Saturday", and "Cyber Monday" sales. This is a slower period for the ports, but still not dead.

What could have serious consequences for the RR right now wound be a strike among one of the country's domestic shippers (UPS, Fedex, etc...) Their holiday peak seasons are currently ramping up ahead of Christmas Morning.

Mr. MRL

Those clerks would do well to remember Twinkies and Wonder Bread!

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They waited until after the holiday rush was done.
> This is actually a "slow" period.
> If you were going to have a strike, now is
> probably a "good" time.

True slow times for all ports are right after the Chinese New Year...

But you are right...business at the ports has slowed since the September and October rush.



Allen

I have to admit, I'm kind of ambivalent to their cause of alleged outsourcing, when we have real, "in your face" style contractual violations taking place on the railroad that are continually being ruled "minor disputes." I know this isn't the right attitude, just wish WE could go on strike every once in a while.

I was working in Highgrove yesterday and I must have heard 80+ freights, east and westbound. that's just the ones I noticed, very busy.

Dave Toussaint
Riverside, CA
SoCalRailFan.com

handsignals Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to admit, I'm kind of ambivalent to their
> cause of alleged outsourcing, when we have real,
> "in your face" style contractual violations taking
> place on the railroad that are continually being
> ruled "minor disputes." I know this isn't the
> right attitude, just wish WE could go on strike
> every once in a while.


SNNNNAAAAAAAAAAP !!!!!! GET BACK TO WORK !!!!!!

blame Jimmy Carter for that one ... his policies and decisions turned the public sour and for Reagan who instituted the anti union policy attitude albeit the controllers were a bunch of numbskulls for violating a no strike clause

tomstp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those clerks would do well to remember Twinkies
> and Wonder Bread!


I remember Twinkies & Wonder Bread. I also remember the inept managment who ruined said company. The same management who voted themselves huge raises to liqudate the company.

SoCalRailFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was working in Highgrove yesterday and I must
> have heard 80+ freights, east and westbound.
> that's just the ones I noticed, very busy.


I saw or heard no more than a dozen trains between 5am and 130pm through Corona yesterday . The UP through West Colton was very slow with no international maritime traffic.
Andy

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> blame Jimmy Carter for that one ... his policies
> and decisions turned the public sour and for
> Reagan who instituted the anti union policy
> attitude albeit the controllers were a bunch of
> numbskulls for violating a no strike clause


I was a kid during the Reagan years, so only know what my railroad brothers tell me about the air traffic controller strike. I know railroaders all have a collective disdain for Reagan; I just used to make fun of him in high school for checking the horoscopes and saying "wwwellll................................................."

But my thoughts on why things are the way they are are probably better off not posted on this forum.

RS11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tomstp Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those clerks would do well to remember Twinkies
> > and Wonder Bread!
>
>
> I remember Twinkies & Wonder Bread. I also
> remember the inept managment who ruined said
> company. The same management who voted themselves
> huge raises to liqudate the company.

And they will probably get another "bonus" when they sell off the various brands.
Bimbo is looking real hard at buying some of the brands.

Of course there will be much whining about this since Bimbo is a Mexician company!

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RS11 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > tomstp Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Those clerks would do well to remember
> Twinkies
> > > and Wonder Bread!
> >
> >
> > I remember Twinkies & Wonder Bread. I also
> > remember the inept managment who ruined said
> > company. The same management who voted
> themselves
> > huge raises to liqudate the company.
>
> And they will probably get another "bonus" when
> they sell off the various brands.
> Bimbo is looking real hard at buying some of the
> brands.
>
> Of course there will be much whining about this
> since Bimbo is a Mexician company!


when a company goes into liquidation, all the bankruptcy court is concerned about is the creditors. People who hold the bonds, have pension rights, local governments who are owed taxes, and the IRS withholding, etc. Everything else is just dog food.

The bakers union (and the teamsters, clerks, etc) gave up lots over the years at Hostess. But they basically screwed themselves because they chose not to negotiate seats on the board, veto rights over major deals, required investment in new equipment, etc.

They were stupid, putting out and getting nothing in return.

If the Los Angeles clerks etc get a deal like the NY dock workers got in the 1970s, they'll be sitting pretty. I'm amazed they haven't demanded it. Lifetime job security rights.

>
> If the Los Angeles clerks etc get a deal like the
> NY dock workers got in the 1970s, they'll be
> sitting pretty. I'm amazed they haven't demanded
> it. Lifetime job security rights.

Or perhaps the shipping companies say fine, no deal. And let them swing in the wind. Lots of unused capacity in LA as a result vs. capacity plus in Oakland and Seattle. There is no indispensable man.

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

I noticed last week in the LA Times that the clerical workers were offered a $30,000 raise that would make their annual salary $195,000, eleven weeks of paid vacation, a generous increase in their pension and "absolute job security." What are they waiting on? The $30,000 raise is just below what I make a year, my wife was just let go from her job of 22 years due to missing too much time due to her Type 2 uncontrollable diabetes in September and etc. We are really watching what goes out now financially as it is just my salary; hell just to have the extra $30,000 would help A LOT. We would move tomorrow from Ohio if they offered me that. For every clerical worker on strike there are probably twenty people that would line up for an interview to take a job with that money and benefits, go down to the local unemployment office and as anyone there who would want to start out at $100,000 not to mention the $165,000. I am bewildered, obfuscated, and intrigued as to why they would have turned that offer down. Times like these I wish those workers that are striking could walk "the so called mile in my shoes." Have a good week everyone...I have to get back to the "eastern side."

Forever-Railfan-45 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I noticed last week in the LA Times that the
> clerical workers were offered a $30,000 raise that
> would make their annual salary $195,000, eleven
> weeks of paid vacation, a generous increase in
> their pension and "absolute job security." What
> are they waiting on? The $30,000 raise is just
> below what I make a year, my wife was just let go
> from her job of 22 years due to missing too much
> time due to her Type 2 uncontrollable diabetes in
> September and etc. We are really watching what
> goes out now financially as it is just my salary;
> hell just to have the extra $30,000 would help A
> LOT. We would move tomorrow from Ohio if they
> offered me that. For every clerical worker on
> strike there are probably twenty people that would
> line up for an interview to take a job with that
> money and benefits, go down to the local
> unemployment office and as anyone there who would
> want to start out at $100,000 not to mention the
> $165,000. I am bewildered, obfuscated, and
> intrigued as to why they would have turned that
> offer down. Times like these I wish those workers
> that are striking could walk "the so called mile
> in my shoes." Have a good week everyone...I have
> to get back to the "eastern side."


From everything I have read so far, the job is a very technical one that you're not going to fill with some dude who just walked in off the street.
Customs paperwork for personal stuff is bad enough. I can just imagine what it's like for all of those containers.

john1082 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Or perhaps the shipping companies say fine, no
> deal. And let them swing in the wind. Lots of
> unused capacity in LA as a result vs. capacity
> plus in Oakland and Seattle. There is no
> indispensable man.

The steamship lines should and could have dealt with this back in 2002 during the port shutdown with the ILWU. We went through the pain of the shutdown, but exactly when the PMA had the union on the ropes, they didn't just blink, but caved in.

The OCU knows this. Hold out, and the wimps will cave.

On the other hand, we should all remember that if the steamship lines said "no deal, we'll just hire others who would be grateful to garner a huge raise for being paid half of your salary," the unions will resort to actual violence (if they can't get the Feds to do it for them).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/12 19:10 by Bandito.

are the railroads crossing the picket lines at the ports?