Western Railroad Discussion > NIMBY's are at it in Kansas City, Ks

Article in today's Kansas City Star is now attacking the BNSF's more than century old Argentine Yard in Kansas City, Ks with complaints about diesel exhaust and diesel fumes. The yard has been a fixture in KCK for at least one hundred years. Go figure--I have no patience for people who live near rail yards, airports or other industrial complexes. They knew what was near when they moved into the neighborhood.

Here's the link: http://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article727874.html

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

I think more focus should be directed towards developers who build residential neighborhoods next to rail yards and Interstate highways. Land tends to be cheaper in these areas and I'm sure most of them knew the proximity to these potential air pollution sources. By the time the residents figure out the location may not be healthy the developers have moved on with their bundles of money leaving the railroad to contend with the NIMBY's and the Environmentalists crowd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/14 16:27 by stevelv.

The final decision rests with local politicians who decide where development occurs. Many of them are susceptible to bribes and have backbones made of rubber.
By the way I live one block from a busy rail yard and near an airport runway approach,by choice... The house I live in was built around the time the railroad arrived more than 100 years ago and I have no complaints.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

I hear stuff like this all the time along the Front Range Sub in Colorado. This line has been in place since 1877 and rebuilt in 1911. They didn't build it over night.
I've offered to buy some of the houses for $1.00. Nobody has taken my offer yet!

Posted from iPhone

Do people ever drive around and survey the areas within a 3- to 5-mile radius of any place they want to settle in, either in a purchased home or rental property. They could learn most of the positives and negatives within an hour or so of driving around with a detailed municipal map. People are lazy.

I don't think people even study water drainage areas and learn about the established flood plains and historical high water marks where they want to reside. Hurry, hurry, hurry and sign on the dotted line. Then later people shelling out a major amount of their monthly budgets blame others, including smelly and noisy industries, rail yards and airports, plus municipal leaders. They have nobody to blame but themselves.

livesteamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Article in today's Kansas City Star is now
> attacking the BNSF's more than century old
> Argentine Yard in Kansas City, Ks with complaints
> about diesel exhaust and diesel fumes. The yard
> has been a fixture in KCK for at least one hundred
> years. Go figure--I have no patience for people
> who live near rail yards, airports or other
> industrial complexes. They knew what was near
> when they moved into the neighborhood.
>

1) I don't view the article as "attacking" the BNSF Yard. The article described complaints about diesel emissions associated with train operations in the yard. The only "ask" I could read in the article is a request for "BNSF to fund a larger air-quality study by the EPA at the Argentine rail yard to see what further steps may be needed to reduce diesel pollution." “It’s very laudable to bring in a new engine, but if you want to see if your measures are effective, you need to take measurements,” he said. “They’re on the right track, no pun intended. We need to make sure they keep moving ahead.” Nothing in the article suggests that anyone is seeking a shut down of the yard.

2) The suggestion that people move if they don't like it or don't move into the community in the first place is unsatisfactory for the following reasons:

- A pair of Trains Magazine maps illustrate huge growth in Kansas City freight train traffic over the past 20 - 30 years. Thus a community which may have been tolerable at one time is no longer perceived to be tolerable due to the great increase in train operations.

- There is no information in the article about how the residents came to live in the neighborhood next to the yard. It's possible that some of them grew up in the houses owned by parents. As the parents aged, they just passed the homes to their children who are today's residents.

- Telling people to move out of the community (or don't move there in the first place) is a pro-disinvestment mindset and implies that satisfactory community life and railroad yard operations are incompatible. (Please don't project a railfan viewpoint onto the matter as most people are not railfans.)

I am hoping that BNSF and the community can come to a mutually acceptable resolution of this issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/14 04:33 by RuleG.

Funny/sad true story - I live in a small town in Indiana along G&W's Central Railroad of Indiana. Line was once upon a time a heavy NYC mainline known as the Chicago East main line. Long story short, the line had been on deaths doorstep a number of times since the 70's. 8 years ago, the fate of the line improved drastically when Honda announced they would build an assembly on the line. However, the town I live in has been hoping that the line would disappear, and quite a few expensive homes have been along what was hoped to become a nice hiking trail. Even with the line's rebuilding and now daily operation of 2-4 trains, some unscrupulous real estate agents continue to act is if line demise is imminent (though they are not dumb enough to put it in writing) About a two years ago, after the passing of a rack train, the owner of a high end home backing up to the tracks commented that she sure would be happy when Honda gets that plant finished. Why I asked. Turns out she had owned that house for almost a year and was getting tired of the passing trains. Still perplexed, I asked what do you mean "When Honda gets that plant finished". She claimed that her real estate agent told her the plant was not done, and the cars they where building had no interiors in them, so the where shipping them by rail to Honda in Ohio to be finished. Once the plant was finished and began installing their own interiors, they would begin trucking all the cars directly to dealerships and the rail line would be shut down.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/14/14 19:10 by scraphauler.

I think if you ask any real estate agent, they will always say the tracks are abandoned or unused.

Just like asking a barber if you need a haircut.

This does not surprise me a bit. We went to Fridays royals/tigers game in KC I noticed the normal tailgating in the parking lot and after the game was over we returned to the same parking lot looking like a total wasteland with everyone's sh** right where they left it when they drove off. Must be the same people whining about diesel exhaust from the dirty nasty trains.

Posted from Android

UPRR3985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This does not surprise me a bit. We went to
> Fridays royals/tigers game in KC I noticed the
> normal tailgating in the parking lot and after the
> game was over we returned to the same parking lot
> looking like a total wasteland with everyone's
> sh** right where they left it when they drove off.
> Must be the same people whining about diesel
> exhaust from the dirty nasty trains.
>
> Posted from Android


That's no joke. The K's parking lot is disgusting after the game. I don't think I've been more pissed than the time I pulled forward 2 inches out of my parking space only to hear a glass bottle break under my right rear tire.

They leave the adhesive backing off their new "COEXIST" bumper stickers laying out there, too.

Pump

UPTRAIN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UPRR3985 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > This does not surprise me a bit. We went to
> > Fridays royals/tigers game in KC I noticed the
> > normal tailgating in the parking lot and after
> the
> > game was over we returned to the same parking
> lot
> > looking like a total wasteland with everyone's
> > sh** right where they left it when they drove
> off.
> > Must be the same people whining about diesel
> > exhaust from the dirty nasty trains.
> >
> > Posted from Android
>
>
> That's no joke. The K's parking lot is disgusting
> after the game. I don't think I've been more
> pissed than the time I pulled forward 2 inches out
> of my parking space only to hear a glass bottle
> break under my right rear tire.
>
> They leave the adhesive backing off their new
> "COEXIST" bumper stickers laying out there, too.

Is there some assumption that the folks near the BSNF yard are the same ones who go to tailgate parties and then leave their trash and COEXIST sticker remains on the ground? That's quite a stretch.
>
> Pump

For the record, I am a licensed real estate agent in Missouri and anytime I take buyers out looking at property, I make it a point to schedule homes that are near the UP line for a time that I can at least expect Amtrak to make an appearance. It is the duty of any reputable real estate agent to point out obvious issues like railroad tracks, highways, or our nearby Air Force base. Showed a home in Warrensburg that backed up to the railroad tracks and had to point out to the buyers that the tracks were actually above the roof line of the home. That was the okay until a train passed by and they saw freight cars above the home--"next home, please".

Marty Harrison
Knob Noster, MO

I live in Gettysburg, Pa., where CSX operates one train a day in each direction, Monday-Friday only, with a very occasional eastbound Sunday move. The local shortline, Gettysburg and Northern, runs a daily turn Monday-Friday, only.
People still complain about the noise, especially from CSX which runs through the heart of town.

That particular piece of railroad has been here since the 1850s, and in fact saw Abe Lincoln ride to and from town in November 1863.

In Western Maryland days, the line was far busier than it is now.

And yet the yammerers continue to yammer.

Art House
Gettysburg, Pa.

Back in the 1980's I was running the SP's training center in Cerritos, CA. One day, out of the clear blue sky, I received a telephone call from a person who was considering purchasing a new home, located in the area east of City of Industry (CA) near Walnut. This person must have jotted down the first telephone number he found for Southern Pacific in some phonebook, I guess -- it was the training center's number. I'll never forget the call. He told me of the intended purchase and wanted to verify what his realtor had told him about rail traffic nearby. Of course, this was the SP Sunset Route main track and I gave him my best estimate of the number of trains (30-40 plus). He gasped and told me the realtor had told him maybe two or three trains a day! Moral of the story ---- DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

God made pine trees for a reason. To block noise, light and sound from unwanted sources. These good folks should plant them.

gyralite Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in the 1980's I was running the SP's training
> center in Cerritos, CA. One day, out of the clear
> blue sky, I received a telephone call from a
> person who was considering purchasing a new home,
> located in the area east of City of Industry (CA)
> near Walnut. This person must have jotted down
> the first telephone number he found for Southern
> Pacific in some phonebook, I guess -- it was the
> training center's number. I'll never forget the
> call. He told me of the intended purchase and
> wanted to verify what his realtor had told him
> about rail traffic nearby. Of course, this was
> the SP Sunset Route main track and I gave him my
> best estimate of the number of trains (30-40
> plus). He gasped and told me the realtor had told
> him maybe two or three trains a day! Moral of the
> story ---- DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

As our late, great President said: "Trust, but verify"

'Argentine' is Spanish for silver. Argentine, Kansas was primarily recognized for the prosperous silver smelter (Consolidated Kansas City Smelter and Refining Company) for which it was named. If the NIMBYS want to worry about something, they ought to look in their own yards, because the poisonous smokestack emissions from that smelter coated everything in the valley. That includes Argentine Yard, by it's very nature a haz-mat location by itself.

For more information look up the EPA CERCLIS Number KSD006943187

Hiball, Karl

UPRR3985 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This does not surprise me a bit. We went to
> Fridays royals/tigers game in KC I noticed the
> normal tailgating in the parking lot and after the
> game was over we returned to the same parking lot
> looking like a total wasteland with everyone's
> sh** right where they left it when they drove off.
> Must be the same people whining about diesel
> exhaust from the dirty nasty trains.
>
In my private and professional lives I've encountered many environmental and urban neighborhood activists including a clean air advocate who was concerned about diesel emissions from locomotives in yard service. I also get upset about all of the people who litter and have on several occasions asked offenders not to do so. I take strong exception to the implication that people who are concerned about air quality in their community are more likely to litter than the population at large. On the contrary, many urban community activists organize neighborhood clean-ups.

I'd like to know the basis on which you make your claim.


> Posted from Android

> That's no joke. The K's parking lot is disgusting after the game. I don't think I've been more pissed than the > time I pulled forward 2 inches out of my parking space only to hear a glass bottle break under my right rear > tire.

> They leave the adhesive backing off their new "COEXIST" bumper stickers laying out there, too.

> Pump

While I don't have a "CoExist" bumper sticker on my car, I agree with the sentiment. I have also participated in riverfront* cleanups working with others to remove accumulated trash along Pittsburgh's riverfronts. So do I get to cancel out what you observed after the game?

* Railroad content: almost all of those riverfront clean-ups were along CSX lines.

The neighborhoods adjacent to Argentine Yard are older, well-established areas. They are not areas of new development. And they are the kinds of neighborhoods where families have lived for many years, and a home will pass through generations in the family. There is some rebuilding and infill development here and there in both the Argentine and Turner communities adjacent to the yard on its south side, but it is by no means widespread. And the areas along the northern edge of the yard in the Kansas Ave. corridor are almost entirely industrial.

Any neighborhood, old or new, is entitled to have its concerns addressed. But the neighborhoods have changed little in those areas near Argentine Yard in many years, although with more stringent regs today, BNSF has almost certainly de facto upped its game for air quality. Indeed, today's lower emission locomotives probably create a better air quality than those of years past, even with increased traffic. And what would the air quality there have been like back in the day when Santa Fe had a huge steam roundhouse at Argentine?

Bottom line: this strikes me as a classic example of activist-driven NIMBY-hood, or some political gamesmanship for whatever reason. Somebody's got a bee in their bonnet about something, and they are seeking a wedge issue to drive their need to ever be in someone's face on the political scene. Environmental activists are very skilled in such slime-ball techniques, sadly. Such practices have been a part of the political landscape in one form or another from time immemorial, and they are no less loathsome now than ever.

MC
Columbia, Missouri

The CPR has a similar situation in Calgary AB, where the newly gentrifying neighborhood is unhappy with diesel fumes, 24 hour work cycle, etc. Not an unusual situation.

The NY news had a piece last night about an uproar in Westchester County, where a 60 year old police target range has been forced to suspend operations as a resident of a nearby newly constructed home was grazed by a rock fragment, apparently generated by a shot in the pit of the range. The homes were constructed last year, and the developer assured the planning board that the range would not be a problem. The board had considered imposing a buffer zone along the range's border with the new development on the developer for just this reason.