Western Railroad Discussion > New CTC on Donner Pass?

Rumor: CTC to cut in Gold Run to Fulda tomorrow.
What's the layout?

WOW---That will certaily Quiet much of the very interesting radio traffic on
the west slope of Donner Pass.
Thank you for this very historic and interesting news and heads up !!
---- Daniel

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timz Wrote:
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> Rumor: CTC to cut in Gold Run to Fulda tomorrow.
> What's the layout?

What is the current method of operation there?

TWC

Quiet for audio but it will help grow what ATCS Monitor can see :-)

daniel3197 Wrote:
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> WOW---That will certaily Quiet much of the very
> interesting radio traffic on
> the west slope of Donner Pass.

Ryan Wilkerson
Fair Oaks, CA

No change in authority at this time. Still TWC-ABS territory. Just an ongoing replacement of older SP searchlight signals (plus a replacement UP signal from at least 10 years ago) with new UP hood signals at new locations. This time the project covers from the east end of Gold Run to Fulda. Blocks have been lengthened to about twice what they were, and Fulda is now a hold signal on both tracks at MP 167.1. The new signals do include not yet in service signal heads for westbound movement on #2 and eastbound movement on #1 with the eventual conversion to CTC, but that is down the road.

I'm surprised the whole Hill's gonna be CTC!

ProAmtrak Wrote:
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> I'm surprised the whole Hill's gonna be CTC!

Not for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

Hopefully enough hold signals will be in place to eliminate TWC changing the operational method to current of traffic like over the Wasatch etc.

>> I'm surprised the whole Hill's gonna be CTC!

Universal crossovers at Gold Run, Midas, Florison, and Verdi. #1 track between Sw 9 and Shed 10 might get put back but so not sure where a universal crossover is going to be installed in this area. Hwever:

>Not for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

Yep, they've been working on it for at least 10 years (planning doesn't take a lot of effort and money).

>Hopefully enough hold signals will be in place to eliminate TWC changing the operational method to current of traffic like over the Wasatch etc.

It used to be current of traffic. These hold signals sound like poor man's CTC. I certainly hope they're not going to be like the ones in Nevada, which are an operational trap if you're "running against the current".

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> It used to be current of traffic. These hold
> signals sound like poor man's CTC. I certainly
> hope they're not going to be like the ones in
> Nevada, which are an operational trap if you're
> "running against the current".

No different than running against the current under with TWC.

Not really a trap if you know where you are at. It's called being qualified.

The job is called "The Widow Maker" in The Bunker and for good reason.

>No different than running against the current under with TWC.

There is no current of traffic between W Reno and [New] Colfax. There used to be before TWC was instituted.

>Not really a trap if you know where you are at. It's called being qualified.

I'm talking about the signals without number plates which govern movements made in the opposite direction for which the track is signaled, which is the technical term for what your are doing when going EB on #1 track between places like Gold Run and Midas (or WB on #2). These have no distant signals. Being qualified or not isn't the point, with no distant signal, they're a trap, particularly at night in the fog.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> I'm talking about the signals without number
> plates which govern movements made in the opposite
> direction for which the track is signaled, which
> is the technical term for what your are doing when
> going EB on #1 track between places like Gold Run
> and Midas (or WB on #2). These have no distant
> signals. Being qualified or not isn't the point,
> with no distant signal, they're a trap,
> particularly at night in the fog.

Mile posts, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 mile markers are in place. I'm very familiar with how it works. The professionals are pretty good at it and rarely get into a pickle.

>Mile posts, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 mile markers are in place.

Have you ever measured the distance between the mileposts on #1 track between Colfax and Auburn Ravine Rd? And never mind MP 119-118 on #1 track. When the UP changed the MPs on Donner, they made a real mess out of things, and it has never been completely straightened out. On #1 track the distance between MP 139 and MP 138 is something on the order of 7,700 feet, and MP 132-131 is 6,680. There are also a couple of anomalies on #2 track just west of Newcastle.

>I'm very familiar with how it works. The professionals are pretty good at it and rarely get into a pickle.

I've been qualified from Oakland (CA) to Lovelock (NV) -plus a lot of other places like KFS-SBA- ever since about 1990, and in my 41 1/2+ years on the RR, some "professionals" were good, others were bad. It's the extraboard person who is the weak point, regardless of whether he's good or bad, because he makes trips over any given territory only intermittently and doesn't have the chance to accumulate the intimate knowledge of the route which you imply. Have you ever run for hours and hours over hundreds of miles at 79 mph in the dense fog the whole way? Remember now, you were called for this run off the extraboard and even though officially qualified, you've made an average of only two or three trips a month over this territory for the last 6-8 months. Not only that you've become fatigued and are zoning in and out. Is this next slow down Empire Curve or Layton Curve? The difference is crucial, just ask Fireman Frank.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> >Mile posts, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 mile markers are in
> place.
>
> Have you ever measured the distance between the
> mileposts on #1 track between Colfax and Auburn
> Ravine Rd? And never mind MP 119-118 on #1 track.
> When the UP changed the MPs on Donner, they made a
> real mess out of things, and it has never been
> completely straightened out. On #1 track the
> distance between MP 139 and MP 138 is something on
> the order of 7,700 feet, and MP 132-131 is 6,680.
> There are also a couple of anomalies on #2 track
> just west of Newcastle.
>
> >I'm very familiar with how it works. The
> professionals are pretty good at it and rarely get
> into a pickle.
>
> I've been qualified from Oakland (CA) to Lovelock
> (NV) -plus a lot of other places like KFS-SBA-
> ever since about 1990, and in my 41 1/2+ years on
> the RR, some "professionals" were good, others
> were bad. It's the extraboard person who is the
> weak point, regardless of whether he's good or
> bad, because he makes trips over any given
> territory only intermittently and doesn't have the
> chance to accumulate the intimate knowledge of the
> route which you imply. Have you ever run for hours
> and hours over hundreds of miles at 79 mph in the
> dense fog the whole way? Remember now, you were
> called for this run off the extraboard and even
> though officially qualified, you've made an
> average of only two or three trips a month over
> this territory for the last 6-8 months. Not only
> that you've become fatigued and are zoning in and
> out. Is this next slow down Empire Curve or Layton
> Curve? The difference is crucial, just ask Fireman
> Frank.

I have spent hours in fog but not at 79, just a tad bit slower. Extra board/smorgasbord designed by default.

Got you fired up though. ;)

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> >No different than running against the current
> under with TWC.
>
> There is no current of traffic between W Reno and
> Colfax. There used to be before TWC was
> instituted.
>
> >Not really a trap if you know where you are at.
> It's called being qualified.
>
> I'm talking about the signals without number
> plates which govern movements made in the opposite
> direction for which the track is signaled, which
> is the technical term for what your are doing when
> going EB on #1 track between places like Gold Run
> and Midas (or WB on #2). These have no distant
> signals. Being qualified or not isn't the point,
> with no distant signal, they're a trap,
> particularly at night in the fog.

Could you detail how this set-up can form a trap? TIA.

The absence of distant signals.

Edited to add:

I should have been a little clearer: signals which can display stop but have no distant signals in advance of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/14 19:20 by EtoinShrdlu.

EtoinShrdlu Wrote:
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> The absence of distant signals.
>
> Edited to add:
>
> I should have been a little clearer: signals which
> can display stop but have no distant signals in
> advance of them.

Either way your qualification on the territory should be sufficient enough as to know where you should be prepared to stop.

>Either way your qualification on the territory should be sufficient enough as to know where you should be prepared to stop.

As I said earlier, this is a deadly assumption for the situation of the extraboard guy who makes only occasional trips. If you put such faith in the phrases "should be" and "supposed to be" as they are used on the RR, you haven't been around very long.

Year 17 for me. If any crew member has any doubt of their qualifications maybe they need to do the responsible thing:

A) Request a pilot

or

B) Get re-qualified

It's simple.

Simple things for simple people.