Western Railroad Discussion > Mr. Fred Frailey, how about a 1-man crew challenge?

Spinning off from this thread, a response to your current article in Trains regarding 1-man crews (my original post on this is on page 3):

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,3508796,page=1

Mr. Frailey (I know you read this site frequently), because I contend that irregular schedules, HOS issues, and the resulting cumulative fatigue and degraded reflexes and concentration are the biggest reasons that 1-man crews are a bad idea for freight crews' current operating environment, how about a challenge?

Put your money where your mouth, er, pen is in regards to the one-man rail crews that you say are safe, here's a chance for a non-rail to about as close as possible walk in a road freight railroaders' shoes regarding the hours of service and fatigue:

Agree to drive (you can pick routes along rail lines) for several days by yourself, adhering to HOS regs. A retired railroader will be your dispatcher (there are several here on TO), calling you to work anytime day or night when you are rested, telling you when to start driving and when you can stop. You can't use your radio, no internet, no reading materials other than maps and the rules of this little assignment, and no cell phone use unless you are stopped (when the dispatcher calls and 'puts you in the siding') or for 'company use'. All by yourself, in the car for up to 12 hours per shift (maybe more if your 'dispatcher' says the 'recrew' may be awhile getting there).

Do it for 6 starts straight, and see how fatigued you are at the end and how quick and accurate your reflexes and judgment are after a few days off any kind of sleep cycle. And driving is far easier than operating an engine on a 2-mile train with poor loads/empties distribution over undulating terrain. Of course it will probably take more than 6 days, because your rest will likely be reset and you called to work 25 hours after you last went off duty a time or two. Won't all be 12-hours, might have a 5-hour quit followed by getting called out on your rest (which you didn't get much of because your body wasn't ready to fall asleep early, these short starts can end up causing fatigue as much as the long ones.)

For increased realism, drive a U-haul truck with some sort of port-a-pot or travel toilet in back. Can't stop at restaurants or anywhere civilized to use the john or get food. Your dispatcher will pick the hotel chain options, equivalent to the subpar ones the company usually puts us in.

Since you are retired, how about making that probably 1.5 week sacrifice instead of some railfan trip, doing it for 'scientific' research related to these hot topics of 1-man crews, HOS, and fatigue? Would make a great feature article (not just for Trains, that kind of exhaustive, pardon the pun, assignment could be worthy of a NY Times feature or a mini-documentary. Go-pro, bro.) You might earn a good bit more respect in the T&E community.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/14 23:50 by darkcloud.

Absolutely agree the man needs to see just how hard it can be.

Chuck

Brilliant! You may have handed Mr. Frailey a Pulitzer, but with it could come a personal dawn of insight and empathy towards working railroaders laboring in the real world.

Naah, prolly not. But a brilliant premise nonetheless. A journalist would jump at such a well-defined challenge, I should think; pundits may have less inclination towards field trips.

~ BZ



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/14 02:19 by Notch16.

I am still livid after reading the TRAINS issue. I am a retired locomotive engineer.
I have read the magazine since the sixties and my feeling is that many of the contributors are pro-carrier. Fred ought to know better.

Here's a nice loophole that tips in Management's favor:

If you make sure you tie him up with just 11 hours and 59 minutes of HOS work (instead of twelve hours and having him "die on the law"), you can then legally call him back to work again in as soon as EIGHT hours!

Then work him ANOTHER 11 hours and 59 minutes and repeat the cycle over and over again.

If he goes "on the law" with 12 hours of work, you then have to give him 10 hours of rest.

Great loophole, eh?

It shouldn't just be Mr Frailey to do this challenge! A lot of other people should join it as well.

And put a 35 mph car in his train. That always helps you stay awake.

Can we give him 1970's "power," a malfunctioning speedometer, and bald tires to simulate wheel slip issues when going uphill in the rain?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/14 06:55 by RS11.

This could be a ground breaking academic study, done a little differently.

Colleges and the military run these experiments all the time for sleep deprivation and fatigue studies. We often cite them on TrainOrders to support one or another point of view.

The USDOT published an extensive fatigue study as part of their new truck driver rules. Absolute rest periods, two nights off required, maximum of 70 hours work, etc. I'd suspect that the situation facing a truck driver, driving alone, is similar to that of an engineer, working alone. Although the trucker probably has more distractions and threats from all the four wheelers doing stupid things, etc.

A related question. How come the feds have one fatigue focused rule for truckers who drive mostly at night, but don't apply that to freight pilots who fly mostly at night, or engineers whose calls often come at night? Doesn't sound very logical, but hen expecting government to be logical...


http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/research-and-analysis/hours-service-field-study

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
>>you can then legally call him back to work again in as soon as EIGHT hours!>>

Not trying to split hairs here, as I concur with this idea of having Mr. Frailey try this out, but where I was working the recent FRA rule was 10 hours off undisturbed at the away terminal. So if there was a provision for an hour and half call to work, then he'd have 11.5 hours off. Same with short turn pools, if they were giving a crew member a 4 hour release to take a train home, then he/ she would have 5.5 hours off.

This was one of the best FRA rules to come down the pike since I started working in 1971.
Dave in Missoula

Factor in some occasional task saturation as well.

I am all for greater productivity. However, since leaving the rail industry, I have been in the logistics business. Today I have a number of warehouses under me.

I cannot operate any with one person in the building. One person can be doing paperwork but no equipment movement of any kind. The arrival of a truck driver can serve as the second person.

Why? Safety. If something happens, it could be hours before it is discovered. How is a freight train different? I my opinion it is even more serious as you introduce exposure to the public.

Posted from Android

Also there is still away to split rest can't remember how it works but if you deadhead to your AFHT they can split
rest you. If your deadhead is 5 hours you get short rest and then work back home for only 7 hours.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/14 08:24 by dpc37.

Well put, but no way he will do this. Ideally, if it were to happen, it should involve territory that is either incredibly vast, desolate, and boring, or urban and dangerous.

To be more like railroading, it should probably be in a partially self driving car. You don't need to steer, just press an alerter occasionally and need to slow down and/or stop randomly. And have the car have a sleep inducing rhythmic hum.

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am all for greater productivity. However, since
> leaving the rail industry, I have been in the
> logistics business. Today I have a number of
> warehouses under me.
>
> I cannot operate any with one person in the
> building. One person can be doing paperwork but
> no equipment movement of any kind. The arrival of
> a truck driver can serve as the second person.
>
> Why? Safety. If something happens, it could be
> hours before it is discovered. How is a freight
> train different? I my opinion it is even more
> serious as you introduce exposure to the public.
>
> Posted from Android


This a very good point that hasn't gotten a lot of attention. A truck driver at the company my father works at was recently found dead in his truck. The company became aware that the truck hadn't moved for several hours after the driver's rest was up. After a few hours of trying to contact via phone and message system they contacted local police who found him. It happens all the time in the trucking industry. Hate to be the engineer on a train experiencing chest discomfort or some other issue and trying to decide if it is bad enough to call for help. Knowing full well if he or she would pass out it would be hours before someone comes to check on you.

I usually side with management, but not this time. One person in the cab is asking for trouble

I have never worked for a railroad. I think Mr. Fraily needs to pay a visit to Lac Megantic(sp?) if he favors one man crews. And then take you up on your challenge. I look forward to seeing what insights he gains.

While I concur entirely, I also know guys who will do the 11:59 thing repeatedly because they are greedy. You know them too.

Bill Miller
Galt, ON



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/14 08:59 by CCMF.

Lets make this more real ; Remove the shocks from the car. Poor air conditioning . Sit on a seat with 1/4" padding . Lots of radio static . Work ALL weekends and holidays. Clean the spilled coffee , sunflower seeds and cigarette ashes off the dashboard. At the end of your shift turn in a timeslip and get a portion of your pay denied. Be critiqued by EVERY move you make and video taped. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc ............
Tom



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/14 11:45 by switchlamp.