Western Railroad Discussion > Happy Labor Day

If you enjoyed the day off, thank a Union guy or gal. If you worked today and got paid overtime again thank a Union person. If you worked for straight time today, get organized. Companies just didn't decide out of the goodness of their heart to give us this holiday. The Labor Movement made it possible often with spilled blood. So think about that especially if your state is trying to pass "Right to Work (for less)" legislation.

The Atlantic has an essay on Labor Day today. Illustrated with a wood cut of a violent 1800s strike against exploitative railroad companies. The essay is entitled "When Labor Day Meant Something"

>>Labor Day, though, was meant to honor not just the individual worker, but what workers accomplish together through activism and organizing. Indeed, Labor Day in the 1880s, its first decade, was in many cities more like a general strike—often with the waving red flag of socialism and radical speakers critiquing capitalism—than a leisurely day off. So to really talk about this holiday, we have to talk about those-which-must-not-be-named: unions and the labor movement.

The labor movement fought for fair wages and to improve working conditions, as is well known, but it was its political efforts that did nothing less than transform American society. Organized labor was critical in the fight against child labor and for the eight-hour workday and the New Deal, which gave us Social Security and unemployment insurance. Union workers sacrificed in America’s historic production effort in World War II and pushed for Great Society legislation in the 1960s. Michael Patrick, a former local Machinists president from Galesburg, Illinois, where I’ve done research, cites his union’s support for Medicare and the Civil Rights Act, now celebrating its 50th anniversary, as among his local’s proudest moment

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/09/when-labor-day-meant-something/379307/

Thank you, AmHog and Lackawanna484, for reminding
everyone what Labor Day is really all about. Far too many
people have come to hate and distrust unions, yet without
them, everyone are screwed. And nowadays, far too few
people are even in a union, so have no way to negotiate on
an equal footing with management.
.

As Amhog said organized labor brought about such arbitrairies as vacation, overtime, Holiday pay, sick days, and the wages we earn. I recall one strike where I saw what the railroad was offering for us to come back to work. It was a straight $8.50 an hour, no home rule so they could send you anywhere and after 12 hours you find yourself a place to stay with no lodging allowance. For a railroad engineer, that is deplorable.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Good post AmHog

Was an interesting segment on "Morning Joe" this morning about a lady in NJ, I think it was. She was found dead in her car apparently sleeping between her three part time jobs. Another segment talked about the current fight to raise minimum wage. They highlighted Kentucky where it seems a majority of people want minimum wage to be raised. Another segment touched on how the middle class, for the last few decades or more, hasn't been able to keep up with inflation, as the corporations have been netting record profits. While I believe we all want to see corporations make money and succeed, general consensus from most of the middle class is they want a share in that wealth.

Working for the railroad seems to be one of the very few jobs which has done better at maintaining wages and benefits than most other blue collar jobs, but even with that I've seen lower wage increases, benefit give backs, increased hostility towards their workers, etc. What bothers me more than anything in the last couple of decades with all the give backs is when I think of all the good men and women who fought for these benefits to now see how they have eroded away...makes me sick.

Do I have any links to what I believe? No, I don't, but I am sure I could find a few, just as there are links to refute my belief. Links are links and can be found to support anyone's view but the reality is you do not have to be too bright to look around you and see what is happening in this country to the middle class workers and why.

RS11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Was an interesting segment on "Morning Joe" this
> morning about a lady in NJ, I think it was. She
> was found dead in her car apparently sleeping
> between her three part time jobs. Another segment
> talked about the current fight to raise minimum
> wage. They highlighted Kentucky where it seems a
> majority of people want minimum wage to be raised.
> Another segment touched on how the middle class,
> for the last few decades or more, hasn't been able
> to keep up with inflation, as the corporations
> have been netting record profits. While I believe
> we all want to see corporations make money and
> succeed, general consensus from most of the middle
> class is they want a share in that wealth.
>
> Working for the railroad seems to be one of the
> very few jobs which has done better at maintaining
> wages and benefits than most other blue collar
> jobs, but even with that I've seen lower wage
> increases, benefit give backs, increased hostility
> towards their workers, etc. What bothers me more
> than anything in the last couple of decades with
> all the give backs is when I think of all the good
> men and women who fought for these benefits to now
> see how they have eroded away...makes me sick.
>
> Do I have any links to what I believe? No, I
> don't, but I am sure I could find a few, just as
> there are links to refute my belief. Links are
> links and can be found to support anyone's view
> but the reality is you do not have to be too
> bright to look around you and see what is
> happening in this country to the middle class
> workers and why.

One of the big problems in America is the inflation rate / consumer price index has been rigged to under state the real cost of goods people use. Food and gasoline/energy are excluded, for example. Who doesn't eat or heat their house or drive their car? Add them back in, and the purchasing power of your $50,000 a year is about 35% less than it used to be. Add in an increase in sales taxes and the employee side of social security / medicare / etc payroll taxes and the purchasing power is even lower. If you go to shadowstats or a similar site, you can see how today's inflation etc affects your own paycheck / pocket book.

The other issue is that many workers have been conditioned to demand money in their paychecks. Most executives know that's a loser's bet. Getting 5% or 10% of your pay in stock options makes much more sense for most people. That's why so many executive comp packages are built around that plan. And, companies like Google, Apple, Microsoft, etc use it extensively.

But, it doesn't put any money in the union's pocket. And it's not money you can spend today. Figure that $2,000 of Norfolk Southern stock in the year 1990 would be worth about $17,000 with dividends reinvested. Add in the 2001, 2002, etc. You'd do even better with stock options. Nice walk away retirement supplement.

Money has been dramatically debased by the continuing actions of both political parties.

[/rant]

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RS11 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Was an interesting segment on "Morning Joe"
> this
> > morning about a lady in NJ, I think it was.
> She
> > was found dead in her car apparently sleeping
> > between her three part time jobs. Another
> segment
> > talked about the current fight to raise minimum
> > wage. They highlighted Kentucky where it seems
> a
> > majority of people want minimum wage to be
> raised.
> > Another segment touched on how the middle
> class,
> > for the last few decades or more, hasn't been
> able
> > to keep up with inflation, as the corporations
> > have been netting record profits. While I
> believe
> > we all want to see corporations make money and
> > succeed, general consensus from most of the
> middle
> > class is they want a share in that wealth.
> >
> > Working for the railroad seems to be one of the
> > very few jobs which has done better at
> maintaining
> > wages and benefits than most other blue collar
> > jobs, but even with that I've seen lower wage
> > increases, benefit give backs, increased
> hostility
> > towards their workers, etc. What bothers me
> more
> > than anything in the last couple of decades
> with
> > all the give backs is when I think of all the
> good
> > men and women who fought for these benefits to
> now
> > see how they have eroded away...makes me sick.
> >
> > Do I have any links to what I believe? No, I
> > don't, but I am sure I could find a few, just
> as
> > there are links to refute my belief. Links are
> > links and can be found to support anyone's view
> > but the reality is you do not have to be too
> > bright to look around you and see what is
> > happening in this country to the middle class
> > workers and why.
>
> One of the big problems in America is the
> inflation rate / consumer price index has been
> rigged to under state the real cost of goods
> people use. Food and gasoline/energy are excluded,
> for example. Who doesn't eat or heat their house
> or drive their car? Add them back in, and the
> purchasing power of your $50,000 a year is about
> 35% less than it used to be. Add in an increase in
> sales taxes and the employee side of social
> security / medicare / etc payroll taxes and the
> purchasing power is even lower. If you go to
> shadowstats or a similar site, you can see how
> today's inflation etc affects your own paycheck /
> pocket book.
>
> The other issue is that many workers have been
> conditioned to demand money in their paychecks.
> Most executives know that's a loser's bet. Getting
> 5% or 10% of your pay in stock options makes much
> more sense for most people. That's why so many
> executive comp packages are built around that
> plan. And, companies like Google, Apple,
> Microsoft, etc use it extensively.
>
> But, it doesn't put any money in the union's
> pocket. And it's not money you can spend today.
> Figure that $2,000 of Norfolk Southern stock in
> the year 1990 would be worth about $17,000 with
> dividends reinvested. Add in the 2001, 2002, etc.
> You'd do even better with stock options. Nice
> walk away retirement supplement.
>
> Money has been dramatically debased by the
> continuing actions of both political parties.
>
>

Very true on the inflation rate. Anyone who still thinks inflation is low is, well, to be nice...out of touch.

I may have been in the minority as the kind of union guy who liked to see some increase in my wage, but always have believed getting better benefits was also one of the keys to a better standard of living. In these days I do not see the lower wage increases as the big problem, but see the erosion of benefits as the bigger problem. Labor needs to look beyond wages to benefits, but as you say, that means less money to the union as a whole.

I'm leery of stock options. That goes back to guys I knew who were counting on the value of their stock portfolio as a major source of their retirement. All was well until mid 2007 and the following period of time when everything went to hell. I'm talking about the guys who were ready to retire at that period. Just too risky as a retirement option IMHO.

Give me a bit smaller wage increase and better benefits and I'd have been happy.

The railroads generally still provide pretty good insurance for its workers relative to other industries. However what they have now vs what we had back in 2000 is very different and to most railroaders point of view benefits are going the wrong way. Railroads are making money hand over fist and I believe the workers should share in a little bit of that. Anyway, it's going to be an interesting ride in the future for labor.

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank you, AmHog and Lackawanna484, for reminding
> everyone what Labor Day is really all about. Far
> too many
> people have come to hate and distrust unions, yet
> without
> them, everyone are screwed. And nowadays, far too
> few
> people are even in a union, so have no way to
> negotiate on
> an equal footing with management.
> .


Tell the steel industry that..........

My company is NOT union and I'm just fine with that.

Speaking of unions, whatever happened to the guy who negotiated the SMART arrangement with BNSF?

Has he been drawn and quartered, burned at the stake, had his expense account frozen, etc? If the guy was acting on his own, without direction from senior leadership of the union, he ought to be bull whipped.

If he was acting on the direction of senior union leadership, maybe a few people have some 'splaining to do, as Ricky Ricardo would say.

EDITED

Answered on another thread that there are petitions demanding a new vote to replace the leadership, amid concerns that the officers seem to be acting within their scope of authority.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/02/14 13:13 by Lackawanna484.

ns1000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thank you, AmHog and Lackawanna484, for
> reminding
> > everyone what Labor Day is really all about.
> Far
> > too many
> > people have come to hate and distrust unions,
> yet
> > without
> > them, everyone are screwed. And nowadays, far
> too
> > few
> > people are even in a union, so have no way to
> > negotiate on
> > an equal footing with management.
> > .
>
>
> Tell the steel industry that..........
>
> My company is NOT union and I'm just fine with
> that.


I'll bite.

That's ok, doubt you would make a good union member anyway. Enjoy your ride on the unions coattails. You can thank me later.

I see the point that I was trying to make some of us missed. That is ok.

I'm glad some of us view unions as a good thing. In today's world, I do not share that view (and yes, I have my reasons).

I'm NOT trying to start some rant......... Just saying.......

ns1000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see the point that I was trying to make some of
> us missed. That is ok.
>
> I'm glad some of us view unions as a good thing.
> In today's world, I do not share that view (and
> yes, I have my reasons).
>
> I'm NOT trying to start some rant......... Just
> saying.......

Good post. I should not have tried to stir this up and I apologize. Not sure what tomorrow may bring though...lol.

I know some people have valid reasons for not supporting a union. I have one of my own. In the long run I had to put that aside due to my labor beliefs and not allow one local and that unions inability to change affect me. It's not wrong for others to have differing beliefs and even though I want others to see a good unions benefits it's not up to me to try to endlessly persist in my talking points to a point where I'm doing no good. Sometimes though I have to speak up for those who won't or can't and that is a decision I will do if I see a need. That's my decision. Anyway, if you are happy in your job, know what you consider the facts are in whether to join a union or not, then there's no sense in me or anyone beating their head against a brick wall trying to change you. We're all adults and most of us know when enough is enough. There's an old saying that actions speak louder than words but I believe some words need to be spoken in order to stimulate actions. At times I suck at words but hold as truth my actions. Hope you had a good Labor Day.

US labor law reflects some of the ambiguity our country takes toward unions, which is unfortunate. In some places, like Germany, labor organizations are given seats of the board of managers (our board of directors) and can veto some major corporate decisions. Like selling off branch lines, entering into mergers, etc.

In other situations, workers are paid partly in stock. So if the value of the stock goes up, the workers can see significant increases in their net worth. If the company goes into the toilet and takes the stock with it, the employees lose, too. That aligns the interests of the workers with the interests of the other share owners.

It has its issues, but it's another way to look at giving labor a seat at the table and share of the profits, if there are any. But it's not perfect. Lufthansa's pilots, flight attendants, and ramp workers are OK with outsourcing some heavy repairs etc to Bulgaria, which has the machinists union outraged. Not a lot different than the conductors selling out the engineers, or the car department selling out the conductors etc in the US. Nobody trusts anyone else, probably with good cause.