Western Railroad Discussion > Longshoreman's Union causing Havoc

I'm not sure how many people are aware of it, but the Longshoreman's union (ILWU) has a virtual lock on all transportation related jobs involving port facilities in the US. Not only those involving ships, but also the jobs related to railroads and trucks. They run and unload the trains at the various facilities along the west coast as well as unloading trucks and handling containers. The last ILWU contact expired July 1st, and they union and ports have been in negations ever since. Over the past couple months union members have been staging a work slow down to force the port facilities to agree to a union favorable contract. But the result of elections, I can see where the port operators will likely hold out until a republican congress sits and will likely send the issue into mediation. Meanwhile the railroads have been experiencing backup's at the ports and have even embargoed international containers moving west. It's also know that export autos and export grain has been delayed. UP continues to hold westward grain trains on the Cam-Am corridor, and the sight of two back to back grain trains holding down the rails on the old Coeur d'Alene branch has been a fixture for at least the past month. Sidings on BNSF's Columbia River sub have been serving as staging points for delayed vehicle and stack trains.

Even before the current work slowdown, the railroads have experienced just the pure laziness of ILWU workers. They seldom close the bottom doors on grain hoppers all the way (some not at all), and they often fall off enroute to the grain elevators. They also somehow miss unloading grain cars all the way. It's a not uncommon to find one or more bays of a supposedly empty grain hopper still loaded. These defects are not obvious from the outside until the grain hoppers reach the grain elevator when the loading crew catches them. So they are forced to reject the cars and the railroad is forced to find someone to unload the car and replace the doors. Also what I've heard and personally witnessed at port facilities shows a lax safety culture and frequent accidents. I wonder if this union has overextended it's power and influence so much under a labor friendly president and split senate so much, that it might have to face the music so to speak in a republican controlled congress? While I think unions do a have a place in American work force, they are not justified to cause so much damage to commerce or to cover for deficient safety culture. Railroad unions were this way up until they lost the support of a democrat controlled congress in the 1980's and were put down in a series of short lived strikes.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union

Weekends
All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
Paid Vacation
FMLA
Sick Leave
Social Security
Minimum Wage
Civil Rights Act/Title VII (Prohibits Employer Discrimination)
8-Hour Work Day
Overtime Pay
Child Labor Laws
Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
40 Hour Work Week
Worker's Compensation (Worker's Comp)
Unemployment Insurance
Pensions
Workplace Safety Standards and Regulations
Employer Health Care Insurance
Collective Bargaining Rights for Employees
Wrongful Termination Laws
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Whistleblower Protection Laws
Employee Polygraph Protect Act (Prohibits Employer from using a lie detector test on an employee)
Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
Compensation increases and Evaluations (Raises)
Sexual Harassment Laws
Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
Holiday Pay
Employer Dental, Life, and Vision Insurance
Privacy Rights
Pregnancy and Parental Leave
Military Leave
The Right to Strike
Public Education for Children
Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 (Requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work)
Laws Ending Sweatshops in the United States

As of retirement in July '09 in the ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach Longshoremen have nothing to do with running trains on UP, BNSF and PHL, they are ALL UTE or BLE jobs.
JB

Touchy subject for sure.

I'm acquainted with several Longshore workers thru marriage, a Union member myself. Couple points I've gotten from them:

- The (four) individuals I'm referencing are absolutely disgusted with the games going on.
- One of them has decided to take a leave while this stuff plays out.
- They've been without a contract since July 1st (as stated)
- There's very little hope of a resolution at this time.

There's more, but in person is the only way to convey things neutrally.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/14 20:20 by Coalca.

Management never makes mistakes, ignores safety rules, or acts lazy. Only the rank and file workers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/14 20:48 by bbcc.

I've heard that these guys have a fairly high hourly rate, only work 5 hours per shift and get paid for 8 hours and if they work more than 5, they get OT. I'm not opposed to collective bargaining but these guys are an organized crime!

Bob

I worked as a longshoreman once. Who the hell on the dock gets 8 hours pay for 5 hours? I saw people get sent home just for being a few minutes late from lunch. Where the heck do people get their " information"?

chuchubobnv Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've heard that these guys have a fairly high
> hourly rate, only work 5 hours per shift and get
> paid for 8 hours and if they work more than 5,
> they get OT. I'm not opposed to collective
> bargaining but these guys are an organized crime!
>
> Bob

It takes two sides to sign a contract.

nedzarp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I worked as a longshoreman once. Who the hell on
> the dock gets 8 hours pay for 5 hours? I saw
> people get sent home just for being a few minutes
> late from lunch. Where the heck do people get
> their " information"?

A-Men get pay scales like that. Crane operators work 5 and get 8 straight time plus 2 OT.

One A man long shore worker I know is regularly HOME 5 hours after he left the house. It is standard procedure at many terminals in Portland, especially on Swing or Grave. Cribbage skills are also a must

AMEN, BROTHER!

Vernthecat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union
>
> Weekends
> All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
> Paid Vacation
> FMLA
> Sick Leave
> Social Security
> Minimum Wage
> Civil Rights Act/Title VII (Prohibits Employer
> Discrimination)
> 8-Hour Work Day
> Overtime Pay
> Child Labor Laws
> Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
> 40 Hour Work Week
> Worker's Compensation (Worker's Comp)
> Unemployment Insurance
> Pensions
> Workplace Safety Standards and Regulations
> Employer Health Care Insurance
> Collective Bargaining Rights for Employees
> Wrongful Termination Laws
> Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
> Whistleblower Protection Laws
> Employee Polygraph Protect Act (Prohibits Employer
> from using a lie detector test on an employee)
> Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
> Compensation increases and Evaluations (Raises)
> Sexual Harassment Laws
> Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
> Holiday Pay
> Employer Dental, Life, and Vision Insurance
> Privacy Rights
> Pregnancy and Parental Leave
> Military Leave
> The Right to Strike
> Public Education for Children
> Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 (Requires employers
> pay men and women equally for the same amount of
> work)
> Laws Ending Sweatshops in the United States

Children might learn these things in public schools and why this is important to them as they join the workforce but the local chamber of commerce in most school districts will put the screws to any school or superintendant who might even think of offering such a curriculum.

fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Children might learn these things in public
> schools and why this is important to them

The history books barely get to Vietnam and then you just start over the next year based on what I have seen. I think the saying is those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

Seems to be true of railroad operations, abandonments, and management practices to bring it back to railroads.

Paul Birkholz
Sheridan, WY

funnelfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not sure how many people are aware of it, but
> the Longshoreman's union (ILWU) has a virtual lock
> on all transportation related jobs involving port
> facilities in the US. Not only those involving
> ships, but also the jobs related to railroads and
> trucks. They run and unload the trains at the
> various facilities along the west coast as well as
> unloading trucks and handling containers. The last
> ILWU contact expired July 1st, and they union and
> ports have been in negations ever since. Over the
> past couple months union members have been staging
> a work slow down to force the port facilities to
> agree to a union favorable contract. But the
> result of elections, I can see where the port
> operators will likely hold out until a republican
> congress sits and will likely send the issue into
> mediation. Meanwhile the railroads have been
> experiencing backup's at the ports and have even
> embargoed international containers moving west.
> It's also know that export autos and export grain
> has been delayed. UP continues to hold westward
> grain trains on the Cam-Am corridor, and the sight
> of two back to back grain trains holding down the
> rails on the old Coeur d'Alene branch has been a
> fixture for at least the past month. Sidings on
> BNSF's Columbia River sub have been serving as
> staging points for delayed vehicle and stack
> trains.
>
> Even before the current work slowdown, the
> railroads have experienced just the pure laziness
> of ILWU workers. They seldom close the bottom
> doors on grain hoppers all the way (some not at
> all), and they often fall off enroute to the grain
> elevators. They also somehow miss unloading grain
> cars all the way. It's a not uncommon to find one
> or more bays of a supposedly empty grain hopper
> still loaded. These defects are not obvious from
> the outside until the grain hoppers reach the
> grain elevator when the loading crew catches them.
> So they are forced to reject the cars and the
> railroad is forced to find someone to unload the
> car and replace the doors. Also what I've heard
> and personally witnessed at port facilities shows
> a lax safety culture and frequent accidents. I
> wonder if this union has overextended it's power
> and influence so much under a labor friendly
> president and split senate so much, that it might
> have to face the music so to speak in a republican
> controlled congress? While I think unions do a
> have a place in American work force, they are not
> justified to cause so much damage to commerce or
> to cover for deficient safety culture. Railroad
> unions were this way up until they lost the
> support of a democrat controlled congress in the
> 1980's and were put down in a series of short
> lived strikes.

So where are the carmen? Don't they inspect the cars before the train is released to the crew?
Sounds like the Dock Workers aren't the only "lazy" ones...
And that's only if what you said is true and not just another Urban Myth. (Heard it from a friend of a friend of a friend.)

Ted,
It has been a long time but I believe the last time the BLE or UTU went on strike, I believe the mediation was handled in courts and not in Congress. I do remember what the company offered the engineers to work without a contract and it involved the dissolution of the home rule so you would get called to go to work, run the train until the Federal hours of service would take you, supposedly have the company take you to the nearest hotel for rest, pick you up and put you on another train to somewhere and do it all over again, not knowing when you would return home due to the end of home rule. You would be running over untrained territories. I was glad that one got settled. Oh yeah, and the wage would have been $7.50 an hour on duty.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

Very interesting topic. it was my understanding that the principal problem, at least in recent decades with the Longshoreman was on the west coast with other parts of the country unaffected or affected in different ways. The west coast ILWU has a reputation for horrible featherbedding and generally being troublesome, however I am told the management side on the west coast has at least in part fed some of this with an equally difficult persona. I have worked ports, as a railroad freight claim manager, on the great lakes gulf coast and east coast and the longshoreman had a much reduced presence in those locations. When I visited the export grain elevators in Philadelphia and Baltimore (30+ years ago) I was surprised to learn that the elevator workers were members of BRAC (RR Clerks union) as a result of these facilities at one time back in history being railroad owned.

Actually business and industrial history is woefully inadequate in school. Most kids probably long have forgotten the 1 paragraph long reference to the Pullman Strike. Most history is focused on politics and wars. Most people don't even realize the people who helped and funded Thomas Edison created General Electric.


fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Children might learn these things in public
> schools and why this is important to them as they
> join the workforce but the local chamber of
> commerce in most school districts will put the
> screws to any school or superintendant who might
> even think of offering such a curriculum.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

There's two different issues your talking about Ted... Grain and boxes. The containor issue has been an interesting one so far, the longshoremen are still working without a contract, they worked through the peak season for the Christmas season. Now because the economy is doing very well there is still a large amount of imports still coming to the west coast, add in larger than the average ship size, and chassis issue and you've got your self a big ass mess... To be blaming labor for the port issues is not exactly correct.. The grain is a different story, huge crop, and the elevators got overwhelmed quickly, it's gotten better over the last two couple weeks, but as the loads start to cycle through again we'll see if the elevators can keep up..

Posted from Android

The dock workers union has a monopoly power over the labor in the ports that the shippers and rails would love to have.

One important result is you don't have a race to the bottom, with various locals competing for the work. There's a contract, terms are similar wherever you are. The shippers deal with the situation based on other factors like break box, rail and road access, etc.


WONK ALERT

There's an article in the Wall Street Journal on Thursday about the new Chinese port in Piraeus, Greece. The Chinese built a new three wharf port with modern lifts, using union labor on a modified pay scale. The new port is handling 70% of the area's volume, which has tripled. For the first time in decades, the numbers of people working on the docks has increased.

The die hard Marxists are unhappy, but there are a lot more people working at good (but not great) wages.

All the anti and pro talk here about things and someone says the elevators cant keep up. There is no problems with the workers? What about the Port of Portland and the worker slow down there causing problems with the truckers trying to do there job? Two sides here for sure but have trouble with the labor side anytime they are not giving eight for eight so to speak. Overload backups are fine but when its due to workers not giving there full eight for pay then there is a problem contract or not.

There's a solid reason that trade union membership as a percentage of all workers has been declining for 40 years. Supply and demand.

I work within a huge complex that at one time employed nearly 10,000 men building bridges for the Bethlehem Steel Co.In the 70's the USW union got into a nasty strike with Bethlehem so the company shut the entire complex down, moved all the jobs to various right to work states and the USW had zero jobs. The most incredible part of the whole saga was that after the company announced that they were closing the complex the union leaders were quoted in the local press as saying that the union had "won". I've never understood that kind of thinking.

Yes, at one time trade unions played an important role in gaining some well deserved rights for workers who were being treated very poorly, but those days are long gone.

There's a reason more and more states are voting to become right to work states. JOBS ! Employers creating new enterprises heavily favor RTW states and the fact that 89.3% of all new factories employing 100 or more workers built in the last 15 years are in RTW states says it all.

Eventually market forces will address the out of control long shoreman's issue as well. If their demands result in those ports having to charge non competitive rates then the shipments will go elsewhere. Not complicated.

Ross Rowland