Western Railroad Discussion > Rules violation question.

When a train crew violates a rule, they are told to stop right where they are until a supervisor in a relief crew come to take over the train. My question is; what if a steam crew violates a rule, who comes to take over the train from them? Not many Engineers or supervisors out there can run a steam engine. Does the railroad have 2nd crew onboard just in case one crew run into trouble are a medical emergency?

It has happened a time or two.

Most crews have 2 of everybody, but not just for this reason.

>When a train crew violates a rule, they are told to stop right where they are until a supervisor in a relief crew come to take over the train.

Depends on the severity of the rules violation.

>My question is; what if a steam crew violates a rule, who comes to take over the train from them?

Another steam-qualified crew. If there isn't any, tow the thing with a diesel.

>Not many Engineers or supervisors out there can run a steam engine.

True.

>Does the railroad have 2nd crew onboard just in case one crew run into trouble are a medical emergency?

Wouldn't do any good HOS-wise, although it might for rules violations. Think of it terms of money: paying another crew to do essentially nothing.

If we are talking steam on a regular freight operator's track, I think in all cases (correct me if I'm wrong) you have a pilot crew that is actually in charge of the train, and IF a rule was broken, technically, wouldn't it be the pilot crew who would be in trouble, not the steam crew? If that is indeed the case, you could just put another qualified pilot crew on board. I'm not saying the fallout wouldn't get the steam crew eventually too, but I'm talking at the moment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/14 19:12 by junctiontower.

The solution is to have a steam crew that won't violate the rule. When immdiate removal from service is not practical, the crew that violated the rule can be allowed to continue to run with a supervisor present. It happens quite often especially if its a short distance.

Here's a scenario to chew on. #4449 is running somewhere on the BNSF with Doyle running and Jack firing. Some obscure footnoted rule on page 88 of the rulebook comes into play, and for whatever reason, the pilot crew gives Doyle an incorrect interpretation of the rule, and it is broken. The infraction takes place within sight of the local weed weasel who came out to see the show and he decides to make a name for himself. Is BNSF going to be content to hammer the pilot crew, or are they going to want to extract their pound of flesh from Doyle and Jack too?

junctiontower Wrote:
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> Here's a scenario to chew on. #4449 is running
> somewhere on the BNSF with Doyle running and Jack
> firing. Some obscure footnoted rule on page 88 of
> the rulebook comes into play, and for whatever
> reason, the pilot crew gives Doyle an incorrect
> interpretation of the rule, and it is broken. The
> infraction takes place within sight of the local
> weed weasel who came out to see the show and he
> decides to make a name for himself. Is BNSF going
> to be content to hammer the pilot crew, or are
> they going to want to extract their pound of flesh
> from Doyle and Jack too?

If the BNSF official is out to simply "make a name for himself" or to "show his authority" he will probably get his pound of flesh from the pilot crew since they are the ones he only has any real authority over.

Would it be any different if the trainmaster conducting the test is complying with the federal rules that require each operating supervisor to conduct a specified number of tests? It is always better to avoid inflammatory rhetoric in these discussions.

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar

they tested steve lee on his 2nd to last running day, he passed

I think, to some extent, whatever action is taken or whatever discipline is imposed depends on who was at the throttle. In the incident described below, I seem to recall that some eyebrows were raised when the post-accident standard operating procedure was not followed to the letter because the CEO of the company was running the train.

Having a train derail out from under you is not necessarily a rules violation, but I believe there was a "gray area" as to whether Mr. Claytor would have to submit to a urine test, among other protocols.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Line's Chief at Throttle In Excursion Derailment

Special to The New York Times

May 20, 1986

SUFFOLK, Va., May 19— The Norfolk Southern Corporation's chairman and chief executive officer, Robert B. Claytor, was at the throttle when a special passenger train derailed here Sunday, injuring scores of passengers.

The National Transportation Safety Board will question him as a normal part of its investigation into the cause of the derailment, in which 14 cars of an excursion train carrying 1,000 Norfolk Southern employees, family members and guests jumped the tracks in the Great Dismal Swamp.

Willis Bush, a spokesman for the transportation safety board, which is leading the investigation, said, ''In a railroad accident, you want to talk to the engineer.''

Mr. Claytor, a longtime railroader with engineering experience, was unavailable for comment today.

The total number of injured rose today to 218, according to Robert C. Fort, assistant vice president for public relations of Norfolk Southern. Only one seriously injured passenger remained in critical condition today.

Now there would be no grey area regardless of who was at the throttle.

Out

The original NS steam program almost ended when that happened. This is why the 40 mph rule still stands to this day.

callum_out Wrote:
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> Now there would be no grey area regardless of who
> was at the throttle.

Don't kid yourself.