Western Railroad Discussion > Possible melt down coming to High Line

BNSF has abolished all pools at Havre Mt today and created a super pool that goes East or West. They are supposed to do the same thing in Spokane/Hauser and Whitefish. Crews are not happy. For those non rails on here this basiclly means seniority is crap.

So before you could pick whether you were in the pool going east or west, now you are all in one pool?  No union negotiations required of BNSF?

mapboy

Pacific5th Wrote:
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> BNSF has abolished all pools at Havre Mt today and
> created a super pool that goes East or West. They
> are supposed to do the same thing in
> Spokane/Hauser and Whitefish. Crews are not happy.
> For those non rails on here this basiclly means
> seniority is crap.

You knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
If this was something that was covered in the contract and management just up and changed it, then yeah you guys have a right to complain.
If it wasn't covered in the contract and was one of those "we've always done it this way" things. Well ya got schooled by the bosses.
Make sure it's covered in the next contract.

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BNSF has abolished all pools at Havre Mt today and
> created a super pool that goes East or West. They
> are supposed to do the same thing in
> Spokane/Hauser and Whitefish. Crews are not happy.
> For those non rails on here this basiclly means
> seniority is crap.

Already a meltdown in the Seattle terminal complex... Ton of people laid off. Could be because hunting season also opened up...

We had a huge wind storm here in Western WA on Saturday. BNSF is still recovering!

Since I am not totally familiar with the bidding process in this area--could someone explain what the bids were before the abolishing them and going to the pool bids.

Would I be correct in thinking this has alot to do with the erratic traffic over these lines because of the fire, lower coal and oil volumes?

Thanks
Dale Smith

Let me clarify a little. Tradionally we have had pools that only went to one place, some pools are better then others and if you had the seniority to hold a better pool then you could choose that. As of today Havre has one super pool that will cover both the east and west jobs. You will only go east or west on a trip but you will have no control over where you go. Also their new pool will be self protecting meaning if a guy lays off the extra board will not cover his turn. The next guy in the pool will move up to work it. In one stroke BNSF has taken away the ability to choose your job and the extra board. Now the pool will effectively be one big extra board. They plan on doing this in Whitefish and Hauser too. This will cut jobs and improve profits all while hurting safety. 

Pacific5th Wrote:
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> improve profits all while hurting safety. 

To a non-rail, please explain how it would hurt safety?

jst3751 Wrote:
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> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > improve profits all while hurting safety. 
>
> To a non-rail, please explain how it would hurt
> safety?

The pools have always been semi-stable as far as a schedule goes. Generally you know with in a few hours when you might go to work. If you call in sick a extra board guy fills in your job. With the new pool when a guy lays off the next guy in line will move up to his spot. It will be exactly like the extra board is now, very unpredictable. You might check and see you are due out at 8AM, however when 4 guys call in sick ahead of you you might move up to 11PM and now your not rested.

     This is nothing new in the world of the new college educated and very agrogant fast tracked management ( pardon - mis management ) at many corporations today. You can get a college degree in growing tomatoes and that qualifies you for the fast track into management positions. Most cannot properly spell 'management' and don't care. The crews have just become closer to the 'nothing but a number' situation and you need to act in order to protect yourself IF that is even possible. Get the unions involved today and let them get started on protecting you. If they can.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/15 12:30 by dcfbalcoS1.

Is this a good time to mention that in Germany, labor unions and their members often own 25% of the shares in major companies? And, are guaranteed seats of the Board of Managers (Board of Directors in the US).

There's a difference in being treated as disposable hired help, and people with enough votes to vote out the CEO if they need to do so.

well you could argue crews, (assets)  are more versatile now,  you can see there are pros, also cons as stated above

my buddy works for CSX out of Philly ... their pool system has the crews only working one direction out of the home terminal which is north out of Philly to North Jersey and back ... the Baltimore pools work north to Philly and back ... the Philly guys don't run south of Philly to Baltimore ... they run their I-95 corridor like a big relay race with crews just handing off to other crew district ...

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > improve profits all while hurting safety. 
>
> To a non-rail, please explain how it would hurt
> safety?

Before, line ups (predicted on-duty times) were terrible -at best...

The carrier tells crews 'it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to plan your rest accordingly.'
They've just turned an already unstable, unpredictable work environment into an even worse one. Please tell me how a person is supposed to 'plan their rest accordingly' in such a scenario. That's why safety is affected...
Train crews are not robots that can simply turn off and on randomly. Exhaustion and fatigue are really going to take their toll on an employee's safety focus. I'm not surprised the BLET caved under their current leadership, however. The UTU (aka SMART) unions lack of employee protection speaks for itself (i.e. Master Conductors). Good luck in Montana.

Posted from iPhone

If all this is as bad as it sounds, why not just strike? I,m sure a strike anywhere on BNSF would get attention right before the holiday rush!

tx_trainman43 Wrote:
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> If all this is as bad as it sounds, why not just
> strike? I,m sure a strike anywhere on BNSF would
> get attention right before the holiday rush!

I'm guessing these days but it's probably not a "major" issue or whatever they call it.
It's only major to those who work it.  The 9-5ers haven't a clue.

TX_trainman43: You can't "just strike" on the railroad. There are laws that prevent that, such as the RLA and Taft-Hartley Act.

PHall: Your attitude isn't helpful, and we have all heard that one too many times. All that a roadman wants is to know, within 4-6 hours, when he will be called, and to know his destination, so he can put an old car at the hotel. That allows him to go to the gym, a restaurant of his choosing or do some errands. This is not the 19th century. Labor relations are supposed to be more enlightened, and we needn't scoff at other people's misfortune.

BNSF will probably relent on this move in time. Hopefully sooner than later. Predictablity is a actually a key to better attendance.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/15 14:24 by NYC6001.

stampedej Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jst3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Pacific5th Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > improve profits all while hurting safety. 
> >
> > To a non-rail, please explain how it would hurt
> > safety?
>
> Before, line ups (predicted on-duty times) were
> terrible -at best...
>
> The carrier tells crews 'it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY
> to plan your rest accordingly.'
> They've just turned an already unstable,
> unpredictable work environment into an even worse
> one. Please tell me how a person is supposed to
> 'plan their rest accordingly' in such a scenario.
> That's why safety is affected...

In the 80s, back when the chief ran things, I used to turn and burn the Wishram pools for lack of enough crews. However, I told the callers to never challenge a guy who had enough, and I was always comfortable with everybody on the crew being a pro on the territory. If there was an extra man, he was braking, not conductoring. There was experience available, and the responsibility lay with the experience. If a train absolutely had to run and there were, at least in theory, no crews, I'd ask the caller to look for enough folks who wanted to work regardless of craft, as long as they were qualified. I once ran a train from Wishram with 4 engineers because I had pigs to run and there were no train service marked up. The first point was always do it safely.

Conversely, when a pilot was needed, I would refuse to run a train that had a conductor called to pilot an engineer. Conductors don't know what it takes to control a train. I got a lot of arguments from the crew management folks, but I always won because if the crew wasn't what I wanted, the train didn't get out on my railroad.

I can't see how running two already interdivisional runs as a single pool can be particularly safe, either because of the unpredictability or the inexperience with a territory. There is a difference between qualified and knowing the road, just like there is a difference between being rested and having the required number of hours off duty.

TAW

 

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The pools have always been semi-stable as far as a
> schedule goes. Generally you know with in a few
> hours when you might go to work. If you call in
> sick a extra board guy fills in your job. With the
> new pool when a guy lays off the next guy in line
> will move up to his spot. It will be exactly like
> the extra board is now, very unpredictable. You
> might check and see you are due out at 8AM,
> however when 4 guys call in sick ahead of you you
> might move up to 11PM and now your not rested.

stampedej Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before, line ups (predicted on-duty times) were
> terrible -at best...
>
> The carrier tells crews 'it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY
> to plan your rest accordingly.'
> They've just turned an already unstable,
> unpredictable work environment into an even worse
> one. Please tell me how a person is supposed to
> 'plan their rest accordingly' in such a scenario.
> That's why safety is affected...
> Train crews are not robots that can simply turn
> off and on randomly. Exhaustion and fatigue are
> really going to take their toll on an employee's
> safety focus. I'm not surprised the BLET caved
> under their current leadership, however. The UTU
> (aka SMART) unions lack of employee protection
> speaks for itself (i.e. Master Conductors). Good
> luck in Montana.

OK, here is my take on that: First and foremost, I perfectly understand and agree that having an unpredictible schedule is horrible and overall does not promote safety and in fact creates safety problems. I get that. I have been there done that. I used to be a professional truck driver (carrer ended by a pair of car drivers not driving safely) where the first union job I had I was on the "extra" board with unpredictible schedules and even once I had an assigned truck (and no longer on the extra board) I still had unpredictible schedules. I get it, it s**ks.

BUT

You signed up for that job. You knew going in what kind of job it was. Unpredictible schedules, time away from family, missing important life events, etc etc on and on. You do not like that? You have 3 options: Walk, stay and accept or fight. You have a union. It is up to you, the union members to make the union what it is you want it to be.

Right now, you have 2 employers: The company and the union. Your unions are pathetic and are NOT representing you the members the way it should be. The unions are controlled by money, as are the companies. Gee, isnt that an inhearant conflict of instrest?

Yes, this sounds like a real horrible and unsafe thing the company is doing. But you need to ask yourselves how the company able to do this, because the union is letting them.

Put your time and effort to fix the right problem. No need to put out the fire if the gas keeps pouring out of the pipe.

Super pools ruled a "minor dispute"...thus unstrikeable under the RLA

Posted from iPhone