Western Railroad Discussion > ExxonMobil Torrance, CA refinery sold (RR related)

Refinery sold to PBF Energy.  A bit of info, below, on the oil trains that run on the ex-SP Coast Line from Wunpost (just south of San Ardo) to the Wilmington/Carson area north of Long Beach:

https://rbnenergy.com/fix-you-pbf-snaps-up-broken-west-coast-exxonmobil-refinery

I don't know how many oil trains are loading weekly at Wunpost, but I've heard 2 per week right now.   There has been talk for well over the last year the original contract was for 3 per week, so it will be interesting to see what happens once the refinery is back up and running.


Allen



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/15 07:48 by bradleymckay.

There are no oil can unit trains to Torrance, only propane tank cars in any volume.

The Coast line oil trains are unloaded in Carson CA. The oil then goes by pipeline to Torrance.

Allen i just took it for granted as coincidence but with your post i have to wonder if there's some connection with the 2 companies ... here in the Philly/South Jersey area there have been 2 Exxon-Mobil refineries sold to PBF ... one is a HUUUGE refinery in Delaware City,De that was shut and after the sale it reopened with a venegence, receiving up to 2 oil trains daily and up until the oil prices dropping was scheduled to accept 3 daily oil trains ...

this refinery had led to NS to signalling a portion of dark territory on one route and installing remote sidings on an alternate route to the refinery ... the other EX-MO refinery is up and across the river about 10 miles on the Delaware River in Paulsboro,NJ ... now the Paulsboro refinery doesn't receive any unit oil trains instead receives barged Bakken oil from it's sister refinery in Delaware ...

the Paulsboro refinery is no slouch in production by producing anywhere from 60 to 80 cars of revenue daily to Conrail south jersey operations ... that number would be increased up to 20 cars if they were still shipping their pet coke by rail which was curtailed quite a few years ago ...

lemme add both of these PBF refineries are BIG producers of LPG with the product at times depending on the time of the season, being 1/2 of the car counts of each refinery ... they produce the LPG and put the cars in storage on shortlines until the consumer needs of winter have it distributed all over the Mid-Atlantic and New England regions ...

from what i have seen in the past from magazines and a few vists to LA, this refinery it does not produce a real big car count to or from the plant, so hopefully maybe with transfer in ownership car counts will increase in the future ...



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/15 08:31 by Out_Of_Service.

PBF has a lot of stored oil cars right now, several trains worth are in Bethlehem, PA.   This could be a good opportunity to put some of those 1232 compliant cars back to work.

PBF tends to be a smart, opportunistic player in the refining market.  But that refinery already has a bulls-eye on it.  Community activists have identified it as a source of pollution, and a major explosion risk.  ABC News did an "expose" on the risks earlier this week, or late last week.  Looked like a hit job.

Out_Of_Service Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Allen i just took it for granted as coincidence
> but with your post i have to wonder if there's
> some connection with the 2 companies ... here in
> the Philly/South Jersey area there have been 2
> Exxon-Mobil refineries sold to PBF ... one is a
> HUUUGE refinery in Delaware City,De that was shut
> and after the sale it reopened with a venegence,
> receiving up to 2 oil trains daily and up until
> the oil prices dropping was scheduled to accept 3
> daily oil trains ...
>
> this refinery had led to NS to signalling a
> portion of dark territory on one route and
> installing remote sidings on an alternate route to
> the refinery ... the other EX-MO refinery is up
> and across the river about 10 miles on the
> Delaware River in Paulsboro,NJ ... now the
> Paulsboro refinery doesn't receive any unit oil
> trains instead receives barged Bakken oil from
> it's sister refinery in Delaware ...
>
> the Paulsboro refinery is no slouch in production
> by producing anywhere from 60 to 80 cars of
> revenue daily to Conrail south jersey operations
> ... that number would be increased up to 20 cars
> if they were still shipping their pet coke by rail
> which was curtailed quite a few years ago ...
>
> lemme add both of these PBF refineries are BIG
> producers of LPG with the product at times
> depending on the time of the season, being 1/2 of
> the car counts of each refinery ... they produce
> the LPG and put the cars in storage on shortlines
> until the consumer needs of winter have it
> distributed all over the Mid-Atlantic and New
> England regions ...
>
> from what i have seen in the past from magazines
> and a few vists to LA, this refinery it does not
> produce a real big car count to or from the plant,
> so hopefully maybe with transfer in ownership car
> counts will increase in the future ...

The LA refineries don't ship much gasoline or diesel by rail since most of it is used within 200 miles of the refinery.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Allen i just took it for granted as coincidence
> > but with your post i have to wonder if there's
> > some connection with the 2 companies ... here
> in
> > the Philly/South Jersey area there have been 2
> > Exxon-Mobil refineries sold to PBF ... one is a
> > HUUUGE refinery in Delaware City,De that was
> shut
> > and after the sale it reopened with a
> venegence,
> > receiving up to 2 oil trains daily and up until
> > the oil prices dropping was scheduled to accept
> 3
> > daily oil trains ...
> >
> > this refinery had led to NS to signalling a
> > portion of dark territory on one route and
> > installing remote sidings on an alternate route
> to
> > the refinery ... the other EX-MO refinery is up
> > and across the river about 10 miles on the
> > Delaware River in Paulsboro,NJ ... now the
> > Paulsboro refinery doesn't receive any unit oil
> > trains instead receives barged Bakken oil from
> > it's sister refinery in Delaware ...
> >
> > the Paulsboro refinery is no slouch in
> production
> > by producing anywhere from 60 to 80 cars of
> > revenue daily to Conrail south jersey
> operations
> > ... that number would be increased up to 20
> cars
> > if they were still shipping their pet coke by
> rail
> > which was curtailed quite a few years ago ...
> >
> > lemme add both of these PBF refineries are BIG
> > producers of LPG with the product at times
> > depending on the time of the season, being 1/2
> of
> > the car counts of each refinery ... they
> produce
> > the LPG and put the cars in storage on
> shortlines
> > until the consumer needs of winter have it
> > distributed all over the Mid-Atlantic and New
> > England regions ...
> >
> > from what i have seen in the past from
> magazines
> > and a few vists to LA, this refinery it does
> not
> > produce a real big car count to or from the
> plant,
> > so hopefully maybe with transfer in ownership
> car
> > counts will increase in the future ...
>
> The LA refineries don't ship much gasoline or
> diesel by rail since most of it is used within 200
> miles of the refinery.

understood but i would think as in the case of the east coast refiners that they would produce LPG for use in the northern Cal and Oregon mountain regions where cold weather prevails ...

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out_Of_Service Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----

> The LA refineries don't ship much gasoline or
> diesel by rail since most of it is used within 200
> miles of the refinery.

They do ship LPG, though... Like Chevron Refinery @ El Segundo, CA.

Inbound ethanol, outbound LPG.

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Inbound ethanol, outbound LPG.

i think i know this answer but i'll ask anyway ...does Torrence get ethanol by rail or is that come in by pipeline from Wilmington also ??? ...

Never have seen ethanol train @ Mobil Torrance CA. No unloading for one. A large amount of construction is going on at this plant. Some is for the unit that blew in feb. More could be new additions.

usmc1401 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never have seen ethanol train @ Mobil Torrance CA.
> No unloading for one. A large amount of
> construction is going on at this plant. Some is
> for the unit that blew in feb. More could be new
> additions.

Nope, repairs to the unit that blew up in Feb.  There was a MAJOR amount of damage.

usmc1401 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Never have seen ethanol train @ Mobil Torrance CA.
> No unloading for one. A large amount of
> construction is going on at this plant. Some is
> for the unit that blew in feb. More could be new
> additions.

Ethanol is unloaded in Wilmington as you stated. I believe it is sent to the distribution site and mixed in the gasoline with other additives. Here in LA (and probably elsewhere) I know gasoline companies share base stock at common distribution terminal. When it goes in the truck, the brands additives go in. Ethanol, Techron, stabilizers, etc...

Hopefully the new owners will put some money in the refinery. It is ancient, and has not been a good neighbor.

Scott Schifer
Torrance, CA
TinyTrains Website

tinytrains Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hopefully the new owners will put some money in
> the refinery. It is ancient, and has not been a
> good neighbor.


That was the substance of the ABC News report. 

tinytrains Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> usmc1401 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Never have seen ethanol train @ Mobil Torrance
> CA.
> > No unloading for one. A large amount of
> > construction is going on at this plant. Some is
> > for the unit that blew in feb. More could be
> new
> > additions.
>
> Ethanol is unloaded in Wilmington as you stated. I
> believe it is sent to the distribution site and
> mixed in the gasoline with other additives. Here
> in LA (and probably elsewhere) I know gasoline
> companies share base stock at common distribution
> terminal. When it goes in the truck, the brands
> additives go in. Ethanol, Techron, stabilizers,
> etc...
>
> Hopefully the new owners will put some money in
> the refinery. It is ancient, and has not been a
> good neighbor.

All the refineries in the LA basin are ancient, and like all business, they don't put any more money into the business  than they need to. That's why they go BOOM, every now and then. They cut corners, bend, if not totally break safety rules.  And if you ask most neighbors of a refinery, refineries aren't good neighbors, but in most cases, the refinery was there long before the homes.

i would think a LOT of cities would love to have a refinery and related tax revenues in their city.........

66

Before the merger in 1999, Mobil used to ship coke out by rail from Torrance. From what I understand, the Torrance refinery has always produced more coke than gasoline compared to other refineries. 

Perhaps this sale will lead to a resumption of coke by rail.

JoeBlow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before the merger in 1999, Mobil used to ship coke
> out by rail from Torrance. From what I understand,
> the Torrance refinery has always produced more
> coke than gasoline compared to other
> refineries. 
>
> Perhaps this sale will lead to a resumption of
> coke by rail.
The coke facility is across the street from the refinery and the coke travels via a conveyor belt under Crenshaw Blvd. All the coke goes to the port for transport to overseas. The only rail line is the former AT&SF tracks south of the facility and that has been cut.  Rail transport probably won't happen.

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> i would think a LOT of cities would love to have a
> refinery and related tax revenues in their
> city.........
>
> 66
From what I have read, no.  The pollution, odors, explosions, and fires cast a big negative on refineries, not to mention health concerns, respiratory, cancers, skin problems. Would you want to live down wind of a refinery knowing that they spend as little as possible on maintenance and safety?

In any case, new management means a new business strategy - maybe for better / maybe for worse. 

By the way, where did the coke go when it was shipped by rail?