Western Railroad Discussion > Is this the "Start" of EMD's recent success?

Not really sure one could call it success tho. There have been quite a few of these built, which would make one think that these are a success for EMD. These are the last type unit to be built at EMD La Grange and EMD/GMD London. But on the same vein, they are the First to be built at Muncie, under the new owners of EMD. That being said, the first unit that I can find to be built was EMDX 70. It eventually made it's way to KCS as their 3997, which is the unit you see here in this post. Having an order nmbr of 20026404-1 from May 2003, would make it the first of the current line. With the EPA  Tier 4 requirements now in full effect, the SD70ACe as it was first manufactured is no more.
This shot was taken at the west/south end of Knoche Yard in KC Mo on the 21 of November 2015..    Thanks for looking.   Ben

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You could look at it that way - or you could look at it like these first ACes are such a P.O.S. that they can't even lead on the BNSF because the cab is so awful, that the GEVO destroyed it in sales and CSX will probably never buy EMD again because of these. 

Vernthecat Wrote:
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> You could look at it that way - or you could look
> at it like these first ACes are such a P.O.S. that
> they can't even lead on the BNSF because the cab
> is so awful, that the GEVO destroyed it in sales
> and CSX will probably never buy EMD again because
> of these. 

That's kinda what I was hearing, about the cabs, and the fact that BNSF won't let the early ones lead. Are the just noisy and rough riding or are there other issues with them? Is it just the non isolated cabs that are this way, or has it spread to "all" ?  Never got to ride in one, but did get some op's to expierence the SD70M's.  Ben

ns2557 Wrote:
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> Vernthecat Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You could look at it that way - or you could
> look
> > at it like these first ACes are such a P.O.S.
> that
> > they can't even lead on the BNSF because the
> cab
> > is so awful, that the GEVO destroyed it in
> sales
> > and CSX will probably never buy EMD again
> because
> > of these. 
>
> That's kinda what I was hearing, about the cabs,
> and the fact that BNSF won't let the early ones
> lead. Are the just noisy and rough riding or are
> there other issues with them? Is it just the non
> isolated cabs that are this way, or has it spread
> to "all" ?  Never got to ride in one, but did get
> some op's to expierence the SD70M's.  Ben

Electrical. Fire risk, loud, vibrates your spine out of your ass... Just to name a few issues with the early ones. We can only move them in the yard and no items can be in the electrical area (in the cab across from the bathroom on ours) 

Some of them have been getting single chime horns on them. Had one on a coal train that sounded like it belonged on a SW1.

Well, if you can't use it as a leader then I guess all you need is a single chime for hostler moves.

Very much a spartan cab on these. A flimsy wooden tabletop on the conductor's side, no cab crew comforts what-so-ever and equipped with inward facing cameras.

No wonder nobody likes them...

Would probably make a giant boat anchor.

Jim
Hatboro, PA​​

The 2011 SD70ACe was the start of their recent success, shame Tier 4 snuffed that out.

MitchGDRMCo Wrote:
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> The 2011 SD70ACe was the start of their recent
> success, shame Tier 4 snuffed that out.

So you're saying that the SD70ACe-T4 is not successful?

MP555 Wrote:
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> So you're saying that the SD70ACe-T4 is not successful?

Give it some time . . . only 3 units out, so far, and AFAIK none have seen service yet.

It's a little surprising that the demos didn't go to Pueblo on line, curious.

Out

I have no comment on the ACe-T4, only the previous Tier 2 and Tier 3 710 powered version. If the 2011-2014 built SD70ACes are anything to go by EMD has stepped up the quality.

The latest ACes are on par with the GEVO. Maybe better pullers. Been noticing this on both loads and empties with all EMD. And I have been keeping score.
I find it funny that the measure of a locomotive is creature comforts and not its ability to work.
BNSF has a bulletin out on the earlier SD70s including foreign DC units. Noise issues as well as the stinkiest toilet. Some even have non radial trucks making it rough riding. And the cab is poor at isolating the rough ride it was designed for for some reason along with horn noise inside as well.

For what its worth, GE computers suck. Seem to have more problems with these.
And a fair assessment would put them about even.
The tie breaker would be EMD doesn't catch fire nearly as much as GE....

And the tier 4s were probably dead for emission control info. Can't control the data collected with all that idle time on them.

SD45X Wrote:
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> The latest ACes are on par with the GEVO. Maybe
> better pullers. Been noticing this on both loads
> and empties with all EMD. And I have been keeping
> score.
> I find it funny that the measure of a locomotive
> is creature comforts and not its ability to work.
> BNSF has a bulletin out on the earlier SD70s
> including foreign DC units. Noise issues as well
> as the stinkiest toilet. Some even have non radial
> trucks making it rough riding. And the cab is poor
> at isolating the rough ride it was designed for
> for some reason along with horn noise inside as
> well.
>
> For what its worth, GE computers suck. Seem to
> have more problems with these.
> And a fair assessment would put them about even.
> The tie breaker would be EMD doesn't catch fire
> nearly as much as GE....
>
> And the tier 4s were probably dead for emission
> control info. Can't control the data collected
> with all that idle time on them.

Informative post, thanks.

I think EMD to some degree had their hands tied by GM for quite some time before Caterpillar/Progress Rail took the reins, in terms of investment/business focus etc. If you look at the video that's available about the development of the SD70ACe-Tier 4 it certainly sounds like there's been a great deal of investment and energy put into the T4 project. This is exactly what's needed for EMD to regain lost ground and to keep GE 'honest' i.e. all markets are best served by competition between suppliers.

callum_out Wrote:
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> It's a little surprising that the demos didn't go
> to Pueblo on line, curious.

Not really.  They are prototypes going to a facility to be tested by a bunch of engineers.  What would be gained by running and providing power on their trip there?

The reliability numbers on the ACe's and EVO's are pretty telling as well. On NS the ACe's are averaging in the upper 80's-low 90's (out of 100) while the AC EVO's are in the low to mid-80's range. For as great as all these T&E employees say these EVO's are, the Dash-9's that are 10+ years older then the DC EVO's, have better reliability numbers then their newer, supposedly better successors. It's unfortunate that EMD could not get the 710 to meet Tier-4, because I believe they really could have taken back the majority of the market from GE if they could have done that. Both EMD's 710 and GE's 7FDL engines are much better engines then the GEVO. The GEVO already was a pain to work on in it's Tier-2 & -3 form, I can't imagine how bad these new Tier-4's are with all the extra emissions junk on them (not that the 1010J3 will be much better).

CR4114 Wrote:
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> The reliability numbers on the ACe's and EVO's are
> pretty telling as well. On NS the ACe's are
> averaging in the upper 80's-low 90's (out of 100)
> while the AC EVO's are in the low to mid-80's
> range. For as great as all these T&E employees say
> these EVO's are, the Dash-9's that are 10+ years
> older then the DC EVO's, have better reliability
> numbers then their newer, supposedly better
> successors. It's unfortunate that EMD could not
> get the 710 to meet Tier-4, because I believe they
> really could have taken back the majority of the
> market from GE if they could have done that. Both
> EMD's 710 and GE's 7FDL engines are much better
> engines then the GEVO. The GEVO already was a pain
> to work on in it's Tier-2 & -3 form, I can't
> imagine how bad these new Tier-4's are with all
> the extra emissions junk on them (not that the
> 1010J3 will be much better).

Lies, damn lies and statistics... ;-)

The non-isolated cabbed units are like riding in a bass drum once you get about throttle 3. The isolated cab units bounce so much, you almost get 'train sick'!