Western Railroad Discussion > One route left for UP due to Sacramento flooding

Due to major flooding arround Sacramento, and now the potential failure of the Oroville Dam spillway, and given that UP has now closed all lines north of Roseville due to these threats, the only option left is the ex-SP West Valley Line, currently operated by a regional shortline (G & W).  This line connects to the CAL-P line in Davis, and the UP main up north in Tehama, south of Redding.  SP used to use it all the time for through freights.

The Thomes Creek bridge on this line has been fixed, and the line is intact with signaling.  Lots of welded rail, too.  Granted, speeds are slower (25-40 mph) due to its downgraded status, but it's there. Trains heading south can make it safely to Davis, then south on the Coast Line, or go over Altamont to rejoin the Fresno sub line south of Stockton.  The opposite for trains heading north.

It's come to this, and I wonder if UP will make use of it?  Flexibility is key, and I wonder if the UP has thought of using this line to keep trains moving?  They can still get to Roseville via Sac, if needed, and they can certainly keep things moving south and northbound.  Lack of sidings is an issue, so fleeting would be necessary.  Gotta wonder if UP is thinking about it?

Case in point:  the ZLCBR just came over Altamont to Oakland, then north to Davis / Sacramento, but now it can't go north of Roseville due to Oroville Dam's problems, so send it up the West Valley line at Davis.  



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/12/17 22:48 by coach.

Would have to do it if the emergency dam fails. Modoc Line gone...Blue Mtns.???? Columbia River??

The dilemma is interesting ... just think if this weather situation is the beginning ...  today's weather is not tomorrow's climate,
but the recent geologic past reveals long stretches of time with way more annual rainfall/snowfall in the Sierra's/Great Basin/RockyMtns  ... anyone care to
think about "ancient" Lake Lahaton or Lake Bonneville given today's transportation patterns ... geez what's 12,000 +/-  years among friends!
Seriously, today's "ap" age does not have a clue when it comes to possible/probable future environmental settings ... the earth does not care
about what man thinks .. it's on it's mission in reality ... so y'all must pay attention out there ...
 

Ya know,  restore the Wells NV to Twin Falls ID line and you would have a further shortcut to the Pac NW via the UPRR former OSL.
That as well as restoring the SP Modoc Line would giver further redundancy to western railroading.
 ----- Daniel

Anybody know how long the sidings are on the West Valley?

Intersting thought ... however what if the UP can't get to Wells via the Lucin cutoff (or any other route out of Ogden/Salt Lake) ... there be issues on those routes as well given the current storm patterns ...

It be interesting for sure ...

Odyssey
Evergreen, CO

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody know how long the sidings are on the West
> Valley?

As of October 31, 1989 at 00:01:
Delavan: 5,015 feet
Cortena: 5,065 feet
Harrington: 5,360 feet

For comparison, the sidings on the East Valley Line between Tehama and Roseville in the same timetable are:
Vina: 8,200 feet
Anita: 8,378 feet
Chico: 8,540 feet
Richvale: 8,185 feet
Fagan: 8,420 feet
Berg: 8,450 feet
Ostrom: 8,350 feet
Brock: 8,260 feet
Sunset Whitney: 8,370 feet



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/17 02:05 by EricSP.

EricSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TCnR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anybody know how long the sidings are on the
> West
> > Valley?
>
> As of October 31, 1989 at 00:01:
> Delavan: 5,015 feet
> Cortena: 5,065 feet
> Harrington: 5,360 feet
>
> For comparison, the sidings on the East Valley
> Line between Tehama and Roseville in the same
> timetable are:
> Vina: 8,200 feet
> Anita: 8,378 feet
> Chico: 8,540 feet
> Richvale: 8,185 feet
> Fagan: 8,420 feet
> Berg: 8,450 feet
> Ostrom: 8,350 feet
> Brock: 8,260 feet
> Sunset Whitney: 8,370 feet


Vina was torn out years ago. Too bad really, as it leave a large, logistical nightmare creating gap between Gerber and Anita/Chico.

Odyssey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Intersting thought ... however what if the UP
> can't get to Wells via the Lucin cutoff (or any
> other route out of Ogden/Salt Lake) ... there be
> issues on those routes as well given the current
> storm patterns ...
>
> It be interesting for sure ...
>
> Odyssey
> Evergreen, CO
My engineer friend between Green River and Ogden told me last night that due to the service interruption west of Ogden around Lucin to Montello, they are cutting off pool turns.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anybody know how long the sidings are on the West
> Valley?

Hardly any sidings exist, and they are not long enough for meets. They'd have to fleet trains North for a bit, then south for a bit, and so on. Fleeting would be their best option. Max track speed from Tehama to Davis is 10-25mph these days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/17 07:16 by PacNWZ12.

California Railfan Timetable 19 from March 2008 on  p 62  from Altamont Press  
for West Valley LIne only shows ONE (1) siding .
( I suspect the following is probably still the lay of the land in 2017 )
California Northern Railroad --West Valley Subdivision  :

CORTENA  5065  feet 
CORTENA is located at MP 129.1

-----Daniel 
=====================================
EricSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TCnR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Anybody know how long the sidings are on the
> West
> > Valley?
>
> As of October 31, 1989 at 00:01:
> Delavan: 5,015 feet
> Cortena: 5,065 feet
> Harrington: 5,360 feet
>
> For comparison, the sidings on the East Valley
> Line between Tehama and Roseville in the same
> timetable are:
> Vina: 8,200 feet
> Anita: 8,378 feet
> Chico: 8,540 feet
> Richvale: 8,185 feet
> Fagan: 8,420 feet
> Berg: 8,450 feet
> Ostrom: 8,350 feet
> Brock: 8,260 feet
> Sunset Whitney: 8,370 feet

For any of this to come to fruition, Oroville dam will have to fail.  

Let's hope that doesn't happen.  

The West Valley line has a bridge out near it's northern terminus with the Valley Line, not quite sure exactly where though. Let's hope for the best to the nice people of Northern California..

ktm-450 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The West Valley line has a bridge out near it's
> northern terminus with the Valley Line, not quite
> sure exactly where though. Let's hope for the best
> to the nice people of Northern California..

Someone here can confirm, but I believe that bridge has been repaired. As CA_Sou_MA_Agent said, it's all a moot point anyway.

ktm-450 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The West Valley line has a bridge out near it's
> northern terminus with the Valley Line, not quite
> sure exactly where though. Let's hope for the best
> to the nice people of Northern California..

Bridge was fixed a few years ago...

Posted from iPhone

Odyssey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The dilemma is interesting ... just think if this
> weather situation is the beginning ...  today's
> weather is not tomorrow's climate,
> but the recent geologic past reveals long
> stretches of time with way more annual
> rainfall/snowfall in the Sierra's/Great
> Basin/RockyMtns  ... anyone care to
> think about "ancient" Lake Lahaton or Lake
> Bonneville given today's transportation patterns
> ... geez what's 12,000 +/-  years among friends!
> Seriously, today's "ap" age does not have a clue
> when it comes to possible/probable future
> environmental settings ... the earth does not
> care
> about what man thinks .. it's on it's mission in
> reality ... so y'all must pay attention out there
> ...
>  

What is your point?

They'd have to fleet like they did in the spring of '86.  Even at its worst it was roughly 5' running time Tehama to Davis.  In those days it was almost entirely 40 mph with a 3' running time.  Of course the anti-rail crowd would have a conniption if those kinds of trains started making the turn on the Davis Wye.  Lol.  The risk on the East Valley seems to be more about catastrophic spillway failure than levee breaks - at this point anyway.  UP waiting for a window to run traffic as the risk of the Auxiliary Spillway eases?  I wonder if the risk calculation is more stringent for Passenger trains...

sphogger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/17 13:17 by sphogger.