Western Railroad Discussion > Very quiet UP mains

I was in Davis and Sacramento today, and I didn't see a single UP freight train, and I was near the tracks (on business) for much of the day.  Quiet in Davis, quiet in Sacramento, quiet on the CAL-P.

The Yolo Bypass was full, but down 3 feet from yesterday.

UP asked the ACE passenger train to "not run today" due to detours, but what detours??  Now I'm back in Oakland, and it's still quiet.  Why inconvenience all those people, when it seems like it wasn't needed?   Not good.

And, up near Folsom, the SACRAMENTO LIGHT RAIL line was terminated farther down the line from downtown Folsom.  I noticed signals were dark, and manual STOP SIGNS were placed in the right-of-way well before Bidwell Street, meaning the light rail trains couldn't even get to downtown Folsom.  How long has that hassle been going on?  It's a single track line that many use during commute periods, so hopefully they fix it.

And no, UP did not use the West Valley Line.  It sat quietly unused, despite being a viable alternative.  I guess the Corridor Managers don't even have it on their maps.

Ive heard the UP is back in service between Roseville and Dunsmuir, it was cheaper to wait it out then detour over the west valley line.

CS

And I'm sure the UP customers are thrilled..........

I counted only two detours over the Oakland sub, both westbound/northbound long manifests in the afternoon. What a waste for the people who take Ace daily.

Posted from iPhone

Blair Cutoff isn't jus quiet, it's dead! The reroutes really have taken a toll on the
night time horn concert.

Out

coach Wrote:
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> I was in Davis and Sacramento today, and I didn't
> see a single UP freight train, and I was near the
> tracks (on business) for much of the day.  Quiet
> in Davis, quiet in Sacramento, quiet on the
> CAL-P.
>

At my vantage point between Elvas and Haggin on the Martinez Sub (mp 91.xx) I saw at least 6 trains mostly after lunch. A mix of east and west heading to and from Haggin. There seemed to be a train waiting at the Garbage Crossing (28th St) to head west all afternoon so I assume they were using the Connector at Haggin (19th Street) make a reverse move and head south on the Sacramento Sub.

ns1000 Wrote:
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> And I'm sure the UP customers are
> thrilled..........

Railroads not concerned about customers, just Wallstreet.

Running like streetcars in dunsmuir, nothing when you want one and then three or four at the same time.

spwolfmtn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ns1000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And I'm sure the UP customers are
> > thrilled..........
>
> Railroads not concerned about customers, just
> Wallstreet.

I already know this.......which is my point!!

MOW working Altamont too. So in order of priority: (1) a whopping two detoured freights (2) MOW (3) Ace 



ns1000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> spwolfmtn Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ns1000 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And I'm sure the UP customers are
> > > thrilled..........
> >
> > Railroads not concerned about customers, just
> > Wallstreet.
>
> I already know this.......which is my point!!

With all the issues around Oroville and also back around Montello in Nevada, traffic will be running in all sorts of directions to keep it moving.

Bob Krieger
Cheyenne, WY

ACE needs the MOW work too. Between detours and MOW ACE schedules could be off. So good to take a time out.


JamesSchlinger Wrote:
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> MOW working Altamont too. So in order of priority:
> (1) a whopping two detoured freights (2) MOW (3)
> Ace 
>
>
>
> ns1000 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > spwolfmtn Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > ns1000 Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > And I'm sure the UP customers are
> > > > thrilled..........
> > >
> > > Railroads not concerned about customers, just
> > > Wallstreet.
> >
> > I already know this.......which is my point!!

Posted from Android

Well duh. However, the last Ace train is over Altamont by 8am and there isn't one back that way until roughly 5pm. They also don't run on the weekend at all. Or all night after 8pm/before 5am. And I am pretty sure that all the people that commute to work and depend on Ace aren't also "taking a time out" this week or next, but instead are stuck in the horrendous traffic caused by the outright cancellation of Ace. And like I said, all of two detours a day thus far, and the MOW windows are taking place after the typical commute periods (i.e. the middle of the day). 

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ACE needs the MOW work too. Between detours and
> MOW ACE schedules could be off. So good to take a
> time out.
>
>
> JamesSchlinger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > MOW working Altamont too. So in order of
> priority:
> > (1) a whopping two detoured freights (2) MOW
> (3)
> > Ace 
> >
> >
> >
> > ns1000 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > spwolfmtn Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > ns1000 Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > And I'm sure the UP customers are
> > > > > thrilled..........
> > > >
> > > > Railroads not concerned about customers,
> just
> > > > Wallstreet.
> > >
> > > I already know this.......which is my point!!
>
> Posted from Android

JamesSchlinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well duh. However, the last Ace train is over
> Altamont by 8am and there isn't one back that way
> until roughly 5pm. They also don't run on the
> weekend at all. Or all night after 8pm/before 5am.
> And I am pretty sure that all the people that
> commute to work and depend on Ace aren't also
> "taking a time out" this week or next, but instead
> are stuck in the horrendous traffic caused by the
> outright cancellation of Ace. And like I said, all
> of two detours a day thus far, and the MOW windows
> are taking place after the typical commute periods
> (i.e. the middle of the day).

Not cool of UP to do this.  It inconvenienced alot of people, and then UP doesn't use the line to the extent they said they would.  UP seems to panic at times, doing this sort of thing.  I wish there were more perspective on their part, and a belief that they can accommodate both their detours AND passenger, vs. just freaking out and shutting everything down.  They had the middle of the day, and all night to run trains, and could even in between ACE trains, but that takes finesse. 
 

Maybe not "cool" but possibly necessary. People running the railroad have a bigger picture of operations. Customer freight was definitely backed up in many locations due to the weather related mess. That freight has got to move to keep shippers and receivers happy on people on their jobs. ACE must pass through Lathrop and that junction was tied up with wye moves which can take hours and make ACE hopelessly late. Sidings get stuffed on the railroad when a route is suddenly shut down due to washouts or derailments or, near Elk Grove, a combination of both. MOW work on the Oakland Sub is also necessary to keep traffic moving and prevent ACE from running into the creek again. The railroad still is not fluid. Too many routes are blocked. ACE can figure it out.


coach Wrote:
> Not cool of UP to do this.  It inconvenienced
> alot of people, and then UP doesn't use the line
> to the extent they said they would.  UP seems to
> panic at times, doing this sort of thing.  I wish
> there were more perspective on their part, and a
> belief that they can accommodate both their
> detours AND passenger, vs. just freaking out and
> shutting everything down.  They had the middle of
> the day, and all night to run trains, and could
> even in between ACE trains, but that takes
> finesse. 
>  

Two west coltons on the SP wye at Lathrop in back-to-back 24 hour periods hardly justifies an outright cancellation of all Ace trains. All the other stuff passing through the general Hicks/Lathrop area would have gone through the Lathrop/Stockton area anyway, just like always. OK, yes, I get there is major congestion due to all the stopped trains from the initial problems north of Stockton, I get that. And UP is facing major challenges in all of Norcal as well as Nevada at this time. I certainly don't envy them and what they are up against. Having said that, it's not like UP has the crews to start moving everything at once anyway. Far from it. With just two re-routes a day on Altamont, and limited capacity on the Sac Sub/no Fresno Sub, there are arguably fewer trains going North out of Stockton on UP than normal. Plus, ZNPOA, MRVWS, MWSRV, IOGOA are ALL going Cal P now for sure. So net-net, I'm sorry, no, the Ace trains didn't need to be cancelled. Monitoring atcs, other than the two daily detours (4 total in 48 hours) on the Lathrop wye for the west coltons, the volume of trains going through the Hicks-Stockton segment is simply NOT much different than under normal circumstances, and logically, it can't be, since the Sac Sub has limited capacity, Fresno Sub is closed, and Altamont is seeing 2 detours a day (my whole point). And not only that, yesterday they were shoving those west colton detours out on to the Tracy Sub and out of the way until a new crew could board. So no, not only do I not think it was necessary at all, I think UP should have explaining to do to Ace and all those affected. Altamont in the last 48 hours is seeing fewer trains than normal, not more. So no hard feelings, but I'm afraid we will just have to agree to disagree Stash.  


stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe not "cool" but possibly necessary. People
> running the railroad have a bigger picture of
> operations. Customer freight was definitely backed
> up in many locations due to the weather related
> mess. That freight has got to move to keep
> shippers and receivers happy on people on their
> jobs. ACE must pass through Lathrop and that
> junction was tied up with wye moves which can take
> hours and make ACE hopelessly late. Sidings get
> stuffed on the railroad when a route is suddenly
> shut down due to washouts or derailments or, near
> Elk Grove, a combination of both. MOW work on the
> Oakland Sub is also necessary to keep traffic
> moving and prevent ACE from running into the creek
> again. The railroad still is not fluid. Too many
> routes are blocked. ACE can figure it out.
>
>
> coach Wrote:
> > Not cool of UP to do this.  It inconvenienced
> > alot of people, and then UP doesn't use the
> line
> > to the extent they said they would.  UP seems
> to
> > panic at times, doing this sort of thing.  I
> wish
> > there were more perspective on their part, and
> a
> > belief that they can accommodate both their
> > detours AND passenger, vs. just freaking out
> and
> > shutting everything down.  They had the middle
> of
> > the day, and all night to run trains, and could
> > even in between ACE trains, but that takes
> > finesse. 
> >  

JamesSchlinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Two west coltons on the SP wye at Lathrop in
> back-to-back 24 hour periods hardly justifies an
> outright cancellation of all Ace trains. All the
> other stuff passing through the general
> Hicks/Lathrop area would have gone through the
> Lathrop/Stockton area anyway, just like always.
> OK, yes, I get there is major congestion due to
> all the stopped trains from the initial problems
> north of Stockton, I get that. And UP is facing
> major challenges in all of Norcal as well as
> Nevada at this time. I certainly don't envy them
> and what they are up against. Having said that,
> it's not like UP has the crews to start moving
> everything at once anyway. Far from it. With just
> two re-routes a day on Altamont, and limited
> capacity on the Sac Sub/no Fresno Sub, there are
> arguably fewer trains going North out of Stockton
> on UP than normal. Plus, ZNPOA, MRVWS, MWSRV,
> IOGOA are ALL going Cal P now for sure. So
> net-net, I'm sorry, no, the Ace trains didn't need
> to be cancelled. Monitoring atcs, other than the
> two daily detours (4 total in 48 hours) on the
> Lathrop wye for the west coltons, the volume of
> trains going through the Hicks-Stockton segment is
> simply NOT much different than under normal
> circumstances, and logically, it can't be, since
> the Sac Sub has limited capacity, Fresno Sub is
> closed, and Altamont is seeing 2 detours a day (my
> whole point). And not only that, yesterday they
> were shoving those west colton detours out on to
> the Tracy Sub and out of the way until a new crew
> could board. So no, not only do I not think it was
> necessary at all, I think UP should have
> explaining to do to Ace and all those affected.
> Altamont in the last 48 hours is seeing fewer
> trains than normal, not more. So no hard feelings,
> but I'm afraid we will just have to agree to
> disagree Stash.  
>


Since you seemed to have left out the 2 ZLCBR's that detoured, do you think that maybe you don't know the whole story?

Those ran Altamont on Sunday. No Ace trains run on Sunday. My post was about Monday and Tuesday when Ace does run. Sac Sub was opened north of Stokcton Sunday night and the Z's have been going that way since. 

portlander Wrote:

> Since you seemed to have left out the 2 ZLCBR's
> that detoured, do you think that maybe you don't
> know the whole story?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/17 07:26 by JamesSchlinger.

JamesSchlinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those ran Altamont on Sunday. No Ace trains run on
> Sunday. My post was about Monday and Tuesday when
> Ace does run. Sac Sub was opened north of Stokcton
> Sunday night and the Z's have been going that way
> since. 
>
> portlander Wrote:
>
> > Since you seemed to have left out the 2 ZLCBR's
> > that detoured, do you think that maybe you
> don't
> > know the whole story?


Interesting. What else would the UP be up to to cancel ACE?

MOW windows were in effect all of last week just west of Altamont for routine maintenance, pre flooding issues. That happened for over 4 hours yesterday as well, so part of me thinks that had an influence. But Ace was running just fine last week, so the MOW being done isn't the issue in and of itself. My guess is UP just went in to full on disaster mode and wanted to keep their options open. One person affiliated with RRs but who shall remain nameless simply stated to me: "UP is a bunch of lying scumbags!" I don't have inside info, so I don't know anything beyond what I have been reporting. Last thing I will add is I can see the tracks from my residence, so trust me, I know what is using the Altamont line. Well, in this case, I know what ISN'T using it. I also have a first hand view of all the additional traffic on the freeways and local roads the last 72 hours...


portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JamesSchlinger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Those ran Altamont on Sunday. No Ace trains run
> on
> > Sunday. My post was about Monday and Tuesday
> when
> > Ace does run. Sac Sub was opened north of
> Stokcton
> > Sunday night and the Z's have been going that
> way
> > since. 
> >
> > portlander Wrote:
> >
> > > Since you seemed to have left out the 2
> ZLCBR's
> > > that detoured, do you think that maybe you
> > don't
> > > know the whole story?
>
>
> Interesting. What else would the UP be up to to
> cancel ACE?