Western Railroad Discussion > Last train through the Feather River Canyon = ?

When did the very last train run between Keddie and Portola?
What was its symnbol?

If the UP decideds not to repair the FRC, this train made history.  

The very first train ran through the FRC in 1909.  The last may
have been this month -- in 2017, 108 years later.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/17 14:18 by Margaret_SP_fan.

UP has little choice in repairing this route. Donner can't handle everything!

There's a couple of rock trains working the lower end tonight. Apparently one is a 'belt train' which sounds like it has a conveyor belt running below a string of hopper cars. The belt feeds a tall conveyor belt hanging off the last car and can dump all the rock into one tall pile alongside the track.

I guess they could fill up that big hole shown in the photos. Although they usually transport a big pile of ballast and then let front end loaders and such distribute from there. the big hole would usually be filled with pit run rock and dirt then topped off somehow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/18/17 22:49 by TCnR.

djansson Wrote:
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> UP has little choice in repairing this route.
> Donner can't handle everything!

Are you kidding??  Donner Pass can EASILY handle the low amount of trains UP sends over both passes.  SP ran a record 96 trains over Donner on 1 day during WW2--that included many passenger trains, all kinds of manifests, troop trains, helper movements, etc.  What UP does now is maybe a 1/4 of that, if you combined both passes.  Hardly a problem.  The infrastructure can handle it, but the dispatching may be the real problem.  Lots of institutional memory has been lost, and the mediocre operations of today have somehow become regarded as "normal" when they pale in comparison to the really busy days of the past.

Doom and gloom. Rock slides and washouts are part of railroading. More so on the Canyon Sub. They'll get repaired. It's the business.

If all the doom and gloom came true every time a line was cut, we'd have no more transportation!

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> djansson Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > UP has little choice in repairing this route.
> > Donner can't handle everything!
>
> Are you kidding??  Donner Pass can EASILY handle
> the low amount of trains UP sends over both
> passes.  SP ran a record 96 trains over Donner on
> 1 day during WW2--that included many passenger
> trains, all kinds of manifests, troop trains,
> helper movements, etc.  What UP does now is maybe
> a 1/4 of that, if you combined both passes.
>  Hardly a problem.  The infrastructure can
> handle it, but the dispatching may be the real
> problem.  Lots of institutional memory has been
> lost, and the mediocre operations of today have
> somehow become regarded as "normal" when they pale
> in comparison to the really busy days of the past.

Southern Pacific had double track over Donner Pass during World War Two. SP removed the double track in the 1980's. Still, Donner Pass can handle what Union Pacific sends on the Western Pacific Feather River Route easily including Burlington Northern Santa Fe traffic. Anyone think BNSF would be interested in the old WP from Stockton,CA all the way to Salt Lake City/Ogden/Provo area? Probably not, in my view. Not enough traffic.

SantaFeRuss

Posted from Android

The railroads in general have a short term memory. The FRC will be repaired and there will be no double tracking on Donner Pass. There is not enough traffic to justify the cost. I'm sure Omaha will spend whatever money necessary to repair the FRC and when things are back normal all will be forgotten. They will be more than happy to eat the cost of the current delays and wait out mother nature for another 20-30 years when this happens again and then deal with it again. Just one mans opinion.

CS

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> coach Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > djansson Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > UP has little choice in repairing this route.
> > > Donner can't handle everything!
> >
> > Are you kidding??  Donner Pass can EASILY
> handle
> > the low amount of trains UP sends over both
> > passes.  SP ran a record 96 trains over Donner
> on
> > 1 day during WW2--that included many passenger
> > trains, all kinds of manifests, troop trains,
> > helper movements, etc.  What UP does now is
> maybe
> > a 1/4 of that, if you combined both passes.
> >  Hardly a problem.  The infrastructure can
> > handle it, but the dispatching may be the real
> > problem.  Lots of institutional memory has
> been
> > lost, and the mediocre operations of today have
> > somehow become regarded as "normal" when they
> pale
> > in comparison to the really busy days of the
> past.
>
> Southern Pacific had double track over Donner
> Pass during World War Two. SP removed the double
> track in the 1980's. Still, Donner Pass can handle
> what Union Pacific sends on the Western Pacific
> Feather River Route easily including Burlington
> Northern Santa Fe traffic. Anyone think BNSF would
> be interested in the old WP from Stockton,CA all
> the way to Salt Lake City/Ogden/Provo area?
> Probably not, in my view. Not enough traffic.
>
> SantaFeRuss
>
> Posted from Android

Russ it was the early 90s when SP single tracked parts of Donner!

There was an interesting mention recently that the Oroville Dam was supposed to be one of two dams. The other was on a major tributary, but not built.

Posted from Android

You could double track Donner, but these young whipper snappers running the dispatcher section have no idea how to do it for lots of traffic.....

Posted from iPhone

There's another dam below Oroville that looks like it is in position to absorb some of impact if Big One goes?

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was an interesting mention recently that the
> Oroville Dam was supposed to be one of two dams.
> The other was on a major tributary, but not built.
>
>
> Posted from Android

Steve Donaldson
Pacific Grove, CA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/17 20:35 by SteveD.

CaliforniaSteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The railroads in general have a short term memory.
> The FRC will be repaired and there will be no
> double tracking on Donner Pass. There is not
> enough traffic to justify the cost. I'm
> sure Omaha will spend whatever money necessary to
> repair the FRC and when things are back normal all
> will be forgotten. They will be more than happy to
> eat the cost of the current delays and wait out
> mother nature for another 20-30 years when this
> happens again and then deal with it again. Just
> one mans opinion.
>
> CS

Yes.  Besides, BNSF doesn't want a useless "stranded asset" the Inside Gateway would become between K-Falls and Keddie.  All the money they have spent upgrading the line would go down the drain.  And UP doesn't want BNSF trains on its tracks between K-Falls and Marysville...

Not enough traffic on Donner to justify adding more second main line back in as of now. 


Allen

In a broad sense that may be the Auburn Dam, not really nearby, not the same construction. From a distance with the lights off it could be described as a twin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auburn_Dam

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was an interesting mention recently that the
> Oroville Dam was supposed to be one of two dams.
> The other was on a major tributary, but not built.
>
>
> Posted from Android

All this talk about restoring the double track to Donner is making it sound like a massive effort, which it really shouldn't be. There are only two gaps in the double track / two main tracks:

Switch 9 (Emigrant Gap) and Shed 10 (7 miles)
East Norden to Shed 47 (4 miles)

​If memory serves me correctly the track between Switch 9 and Shed 10 that was removed was the #1 Track. Again, relying on memory, I think there are only two short tunnels that might have to be "notched" if they were to re-lay this track but it should not be a difficult process to restore this section as everything else is basically in place.

​The area from East Norden to Shed 47 is not likely because to restore this would require re-laying Track 1 from Norden to Shed 47 (longer than the 4 miles I listed above) and I'm sure there would be clearance issues plus at least one collapsed shed to deal with. Boring a second tunnel through the mountain is an extreme long-shot so I'd say this section is dead. Of course that's not to say they couldn't extend the two main tracks from Shed 47 to the east portal of Tunnel 41, about two miles.

​All in all I doubt the FRC is dead - I'm certain it'll be rebuilt. Regardless of whether Donner is single or double track one major disruption would cut east/west traffic off without the FRC available. And while traffic levels now on both lines could easily be absorbed on Donner who knows what the future holds.
 

I doubt UP is totally on the hook for FRC repair costs.  BNSF is likely responsible for some costs based on the number of trains they run or on tonnage.


Allen

Chico news site with some info on SR70 in the Feather River Canyon, 'Caltrans is working hard' some info on a one-lane option until work is complete:

http://www.chicoer.com/general-news/20170215/highway-70-still-closed-due-to-storm-damage-trains-rerouted?source=most_viewed

They are already working on fixing it  Fill on the Doyle bridge erosion is already two/thrids complete.  They left the track hanging and started filling from the bottom up with rock.  

It sounds like the damage on the ex-WP from Keddie to Winnemucca could be bad enough to warrant abandoning it.  Would the Army pay to restore the line at Doyle to restore access to their Herlong Depot?  Otherwise there's no traffic I know of until you reach the outskirts of Winnemucca.  After restoring the Donner Pass double track as mentioned by Railbaron above, I think Donner could handle all the traffic adequately.  The FRC was not usable as an alternate for Donner traffic in this series of storms, so UP used the LA&SL and the Golden State Route.  It will be intersting to see if there are any ramifications from the poor UPS service on UP from the Bay Area and Sparks/Reno during this flooding.

mapboy

Edit: I see above that they've already started repairing the washout at Doyle.  Have they started repairing between Herlong and Winnemucca?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/17 10:02 by mapboy.

ain't nothing getting abandoned 

I rather doubt BNSF will share in repair costs in the FRC main. They have no ownership equity in the property so the have no requirement for any property south of the Keddie Wye. All GN/BN/BNSF pays is what they are contractually obligated to pay for the trains they move.


bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt UP is totally on the hook for FRC repair
> costs.  BNSF is likely responsible for some costs
> based on the number of trains they run or on
> tonnage.
>
>
> Allen