Western Railroad Discussion > And the stupidity continues

The day after a woman in Beaverton, OR walked in front of a train while staring at her smartphone and was seriously injured, the City Council in Salem, OR (state capital) has voted to make four more grade crossings in the City to be "quiet zones." Perish the thought that someone's iTunes gets drowned out. They are also considering the same for a crossing on the outskirts of town that is near a golf course. Maybe one of those putters will find out what "iron" really means.
Bill Pyper
Salem, OR

Remember, a quiet zone doesn't prevent a train from blowing their horn for a person on or near the tracks. Considering that the horn had no effect on saving this lady from injury, her accident is really not an argument against the introduction of a quiet zone.

Im not sure why people think quiet zones are stupid. As a railroader I feel like the horn isn't of any use anymore. People are so "plugged in" now days with or without headphones looking at their phones or are just so stupid there is nothing any amount of noise will do to stop them from getting themselves killed. I am pretty heavy on the horn (air is cheap) and they still walk or drive right in front of me on all day long. Bring on the quiet zone I say! At least then the liability, in theory, is shifted away from the railroad and onto the local municipality.


Jeff

Posted from iPhone

I lamblast quiet zones as much as the next guy, but this day in age, with nimbys and people's feelings being allowed to dictate policy, quiet zones can keep trains out of the minds of those who don't like em.

If an adult gets hit by a train looking at their smartphone or listening to an iPod, isn't that on the person? I can't imagine blaming the train if I somehow got hit.

Jeffrey ---
Yup -- blowing the horn does not work to make someone
fixated on a smartphone pay attention to something
other than their phone. That has got to be very, very
frustrating to all locomotive engineers!

It is very, very frustrating that many people have very
little awareness of their surroundings. I can't think
of any way to fix this.

Quiet Zones at least make it much, much harder for some
stupid impatient drivers to drive around gates that are
down -- without damaging their precious cars. To me. that
is the ONLY legitimate reason for Quiet Zones, NOT the noise
trains make. Quiet Zones DO prevent vehicle collisions with
trains at grade crossings.

Liability i Quiet Zones --
I called the FRA last year to ask if a city had to automatically\
assume all the liability in all vehicle-train collisions at Quiet
Zones, and the guy told me it all depends on the specifics of
each incident.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/17 11:02 by Margaret_SP_fan.

portlander Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> her accident is really not an argument against the
> introduction of a quiet zone.

I do not consider this to be an "accident." It was a preventable incident, therefore, not an accident.
As far as I am concerned (and I know some will scream at me for being insensitive) it was an unintentional suicide.

Will MacKenzie
Dundas, ON

CDTX Wrote:
> I feel like the horn isn't
> of any use anymore. People are so "plugged in" now
> days with or without headphones looking at their
> phones or are just so stupid there is nothing any
> amount of noise will do to stop them from getting
> themselves killed.


To add to your post-- another problem is people are desensitized to horns, they no longer think of them as a warning signal anymore. I'd be at a CalTrain station observing an express train laying on the horn preparing to blow through one of the stops not listed on its schedule, and nobody bats an eye. Meanwhile, on the FrontRunner system where the entire 90-mile route is a quiet zone, if someone tries to take a gamble crossing to get ahead of the train and a horn is sounded, everyone on the platform looks up. The horn is unusual and calling for your attention, which seems to be more effective in a quiet zone.

From the KOMO report:

"Police say witnesses told them that the woman was crossing in a crosswalk against the train safety arms with their lights on. They said they could clearly hear the train's horn."

thehighwayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> portlander Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > her accident is really not an argument against
> the
> > introduction of a quiet zone.
>
> I do not consider this to be an "accident." It was
> a preventable incident, therefore, not an
> accident.
> As far as I am concerned (and I know some will
> scream at me for being insensitive) it was an
> unintentional suicide.

Maybe it wasn't unintentional. The news report says that beside the train horn, people were yelling at her and blowing their car horns.
Bill Pyper
Salem, OR

Agree with de-sensitized in many areas. Too much horn and far too loud.

Jamming so many people into areas without separating people from moving metal is asking for trouble, and it's happening. There's some basic problems with common sense, being that it's not as common as we want to believe.

Accident or suicide? Some are more obvious than others. Similar to the mis-use of 'trespasser'. Wearing ear buds in any traffic or industrial area is just a bad idea. The Transit PR people have to figure out that running over customers is bad PR as well.

ac·ci·dent
ˈaksədənt/
noun
noun: accident; plural noun: accidents

1.
an unfortunate incident that happens unexpectedly and unintentionally, typically resulting in damage or injury.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/17 13:10 by TCnR.

Easy to fix, when the cry babies ( or their next of kin ) go to court and want the railroad company to pay for their ( or their relatives ) total lack of concern which prompted their death just make it a simple, "No, you ( or your relative ) chose to ignore all the warnings. Your fault, too bad, get out of here. Case dismissed. There will no refiling, you are finished with this whining. Then if required, call whoever United uses and throw their behinds out if they won't leave on their own.
I know what you mean about blowing horns with no apparent recognition by motorists and pedestrians. We have already shown them it is okay to ignore safety rules, horns, bells, sirens, etc, etc. This was done in the courts, school, bars, public gatherings - what do we expect them to do?

Please bring up the next global problem for correction. Get your Kleenex out, someone's delicate sensibilities will be bruised. No nose and eye wipes will be provided those who cannot handle reality.

How many have passed out already? :)

You the big company, don't ever want to be in court against the estate of a deceased.

The concept of jackpot justice has made the terrible outcome more important than the moron's poor decisions which made the outcome happen.

Posted from Android

Quiet zones also reduce the noise for neighbors, which reduces opposition to trains in general. Since the Oak Cree Overpass was built here in Mojave years ago the only time I hear a train whistle is either when MOW folks are working in the area or some dimwit is trying to walk across the tracks. Fortunately we haven't had any incidents for a while, and when they see them our local sheriff's deputies write citations.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

thehighwayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> portlander Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > her accident is really not an argument against
> the
> > introduction of a quiet zone.
>
> I do not consider this to be an "accident." It was
> a preventable incident, therefore, not an
> accident.
> As far as I am concerned (and I know some will
> scream at me for being insensitive) it was an
> unintentional suicide.

If you'd read that back to yourself before posting it you might have realised how stupid it sounds... 'unintentional' suicide?! If it's not intentional it's not suicide is it?!

thehighwayman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> portlander Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > her accident is really not an argument against
> the
> > introduction of a quiet zone.
>
> I do not consider this to be an "accident." It was
> a preventable incident, therefore, not an
> accident.
> As far as I am concerned (and I know some will
> scream at me for being insensitive) it was an
> unintentional suicide.

I agree totally Will. There are cases where the summation is truly an "accident", such as, you the victim in your own lane and an opposing vehicle crossing the center line and meeting you head-on in a split second , but for the majority of incidents whether in the workplace, in public or wherever, it's a result of "pure negligence" and not an accident.

rrman6 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thehighwayman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > portlander Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > her accident is really not an argument
> against
> > the
> > > introduction of a quiet zone.
> >
> > I do not consider this to be an "accident." It
> was
> > a preventable incident, therefore, not an
> > accident.
> > As far as I am concerned (and I know some will
> > scream at me for being insensitive) it was an
> > unintentional suicide.
>
> I agree totally Will. There are cases where the
> summation is truly an "accident", such as, you the
> victim in your own lane and an opposing vehicle
> crossing the center line and meeting you head-on
> in a split second , but for the majority of
> incidents whether in the workplace, in public or
> wherever, it's a result of "pure negligence" and
> not an accident.

A fcouple of you are losing the plot... I have no sympathy for these idiots either but they're not setting out to intentionally get injured so by definition what happens is an accident. A stupid, avoidable accident...but still an accident.

"It is very, very frustrating that many people have very
little awareness of their surroundings. I can't think
of any way to fix this."

If the cellular/wifi networks had gone down with the power in downtown San Francisco yesterday it might have brought a few eyes up for at least a little while.

All this talk about "smart phones", brings up a, "for what it's worth" item:

Recent news reports have revealed startling data about the rapid & drastic INCREASE in automobile accidents due to texting & talking on "smart phones". Such statistics tend to explain, in part, why automobile insurance rates are also increasing dramatically across the nation. The "other factor" causing auto insurance rate increases is the rapidly increasing cost-of-repairs on newer automobiles, what with all the internal electronics.

The "quiet zone" crossings I am familiar with have horns sounding, so the name is a misnomer. The horns are placed on poles where they concentrate and focus the sound on the vehicles at the crossing. They are plenty loud to be heard in a vehicle or through a pedestrian's headphones. In fact, they might even be louder than a locomotive horn. The difference is they don't broadcast the sound indiscriminately for miles in all directions like a train horn does.

Just how effective are train horns anyway? We've all read countless posts on Trainorders where vehicles and pedestrians wind up being struck regardless of the sounding of a locomotive horn. Clearly, as a warning device, they are not very effective, as evidenced by the number of strikes.

This may be a case where our own biases are entering into the analysis. As rail fans, most of us like hearing train horns. I know I do. If scientific testing were done, I suspect we'd learn that the negatives far outweigh what they accomplish in terms of preventing accidents. Maybe it's a case of we do it because we've always done it.

Radar,

Throughout the entire Chicago suburban area, the "quiet zones" are just that, i.e. no horns mounted on the crossing protectors, nor blowing of the train horns (unless the Engineer sees an impending accident or person on the tracks). Even with all the flashing lights and lowered crossing gates, the idiots STILL drive/walk around the lowered gates. Then of course there are the monthly suicides.