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Western Railroad Discussion > Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s?Date: 11/21/17 19:20 Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Margaret_SP_fan The thread about the Santa Fe 92, which is currently
being worked on by NRE in Silvis, Illinois, got me to wondering about this. Are there any locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s in which all 20 cylinders are still working as originally delivered, with all other parts needed for all 20 cylinders to operate at full power? If so, where, and on what RRs and what are the locomotives' numbers? I don't think the SD-45s the MRL had until recently still had all 20 cylinders functioning, but I do not know for sure. that is just a guess based on reading that the SP and other RRs had blanked off 4 of the cylinders, and had shortened the crankshafts on those prime movers because, as I read, those crankshafts were so long that they sagged under their own weight. Or that is what I remember reading. I also read something somewhere that said the metallurgy back in the late 60s when locomotives were designed and built with 20-645s was not good enough back then to allow making a long crankshaft that would not sag under its own weight. Or so I think I remember reading. TIA for any answers! (I loves me my locos with 20-645s! What monsters!! <G> ) Date: 11/21/17 19:35 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: fbe MRL still has 4 SD45s with 20 cyl prime movers stored in the old NP Livingston back shop. They are for sale but not donation.
Date: 11/21/17 20:19 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: funnelfan The shortline I work for, Eastern Washington Gateway has the former MRL 328 and 329, both with 20 cylinder engines. 329 is going to the shop soon for a new turbo, but the 328 is still working. Heading west on a train tonight.
Ted Curphey Ontario, OR Date: 11/21/17 20:22 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Foamductor Not locomotives, but there are several lake freighters on the great lakes with 20-645 engines at 3600 or more HP in regular service.
Date: 11/21/17 20:47 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Rathole Former SCL 2024, now privately owned and restored as shown here to its SCL identity, still has its 20 cylinder engine. It ran this past weekend disguised as Clinchfield 3632 for the CSX Santa Train.
Date: 11/21/17 20:53 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: SD45X Kyle, MNA SD45T-2s still 20s. Think the ex ATSF SD45-2 is as well.
Crankcase supports the crank. No sagging. As for blanking the cylinders off?? Uh no. The blocks were specially cut and reassembled as 16 cylinders. Quite the feat. New cranks. No shortening. Ohio Central has a ex SP SD45, although derated to 3200hp in the SP GRIP program. Same with the B&P units. Is there still one at a rock pit back east? Blue paint? What about the EL painted SD45-2 NS did? Still a 20? Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/17 21:02 by SD45X. Date: 11/21/17 21:45 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Margaret_SP_fan Woo-HOO!! 20-645s still exist AND some still run!!
THANK you, guys, each of you, for the very speedy replies and all the neat info. "Foamductor" (what a great "handle" :) -- Yes, those lake freighters do count, too, after all. I had not thought of ships when I wrote my original post. SD45X -- Thanks for the great info and the corrections and photos. It is simply awesome that that SCL SD45 still exists AND runs with her original unmodified 20-645 AND was part of CSX's Santa Train that ran on Clinchfield RoW, and that had that beautiful and authentic Clinchfield F unit on the point. It is wonderful to me that a number of locomotives -- and some lake freighters -- still operate with unmodified 20-645s. Date: 11/21/17 22:27 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: krm152 The crankshaft issue is I think overrated as to the lack of popularity for the SD45 versus the SD40.
The SD45's developed a reputation for being fuel guzzlers. This makes sense considering the SD45 had 180.0 HP per cylinder whereas the SD40 had 187.5 HP per cylinder. As regards the Southern Railway, after first acquiring seventy SD45's, they next acquired thirty-one SD40's followed by one hundred twenty eight SD40-2's. So after going to the sixteen cylinder model, there was no turning back. A Southern official based in Atlanta told me the SD45's ran fine. He said they ran satisfactorily on fast manifests and heavy coal trains; however, they were fuel guzzlers. ALLEN Date: 11/21/17 23:21 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Trainboss "Hustle Muscle" at the Duluth MN museum still has her 20 cylinder Prime mover and is operable. I agree with you, there was nothing like 4 of those monsters on the head end of a fruit block going over The Hill. I miss that sound.
Posted from Android Date: 11/22/17 00:13 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Brasspounder Although not directly answering the question, there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they were put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had.
Posted from Android Date: 11/22/17 00:46 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: coach Brasspounder Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Although not directly answering the question, > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they were > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had. > > Posted from Android Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do they just sound like a louder 710? Date: 11/22/17 02:57 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Foamductor coach Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Brasspounder Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Although not directly answering the question, > > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they > were > > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had. > > > > Posted from Android > > Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do they > just sound like a louder 710? A mix of both really. Its a very smooth sounding engine like the 20-645, but not the same pitch as the 20-645. Date: 11/22/17 05:21 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: HotWater Foamductor Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > coach Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Brasspounder Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Although not directly answering the question, > > > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they > > were > > > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had. > > > > > > Posted from Android > > > > Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do they > > just sound like a louder 710? > > A mix of both really. Its a very smooth sounding > engine like the 20-645, but not the same pitch as > the 20-645. The 20-645E3 prime mover in the SD45 model, was NOT equipped with an exhaust silencer, thus those units would be "louder" than an SD45-2 (all -2 model were equipped with exhaust silencers). Concerning the 20-710, which were also equipped with exhaust silencers, and will thus sound "smoother & quieter". As a side note, the absolute "loudest" EMD locomotive was the model DDA40X, having two 16-645F3 prime movers, at 950 RPM and NO EXHAUST SILENCERS! Date: 11/22/17 05:35 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Grand87 HotWater Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Foamductor Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > coach Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > Brasspounder Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > > Although not directly answering the > question, > > > > there was a 20-710 made, and I believe they > > > were > > > > put in the SD80MACs that Conrail had. > > > > > > > > Posted from Android > > > > > > Do they hum and throb like the 645, are do > they > > > just sound like a louder 710? > > > > A mix of both really. Its a very smooth > sounding > > engine like the 20-645, but not the same pitch > as > > the 20-645. > > The 20-645E3 prime mover in the SD45 model, was > NOT equipped with an exhaust silencer, thus those > units would be "louder" than an SD45-2 (all -2 > model were equipped with exhaust silencers). > Concerning the 20-710, which were also equipped > with exhaust silencers, and will thus sound > "smoother & quieter". > > As a side note, the absolute "loudest" EMD > locomotive was the model DDA40X, having two > 16-645F3 prime movers, at 950 RPM and NO EXHAUST > SILENCERS! Love it!, the SD80Macs of NS Conral sound awesome they shake the earth Date: 11/22/17 05:44 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: Entropy There's DSB MZ III operated by either Qube Logistics or LVRF that is a Swedish locomotive built with a EMD 20-645E3 , maybe stored but I think still running operation in Australia.
https://www.railpage.com.au/locos/14-class-ex-dsb-mziii-class/1427 Date: 11/22/17 06:28 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: LarryDoyle Trainboss Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > "Hustle Muscle" at the Duluth MN museum still has > her 20 cylinder Prime mover and is operable. Update: GN 400, the Hustle Muscle, is at the Minnesota Transportation Museum in St. Paul, inoperable. -John Date: 11/22/17 08:00 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: NSDash9 SD45X Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- >What about the EL painted SD45-2 NS did? Still a 20? No. Of the six former EL SD45-2's on the NS roster, three (1700-1702) have had the original 20-cylinder engine replaced with an EMD 16-cylinder 645E3 model and are rated at 3,000 horsepower, while the other three (1703-1705) retain their EMD 20-cylinder 645E3 engine, but the horsepower rating was downgraded from 3,600 to 3,000 horsepower. http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/1700.html Chris Toth NSDash9.com Date: 11/22/17 08:02 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: ntharalson LarryDoyle Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Trainboss Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > "Hustle Muscle" at the Duluth MN museum still > has > > her 20 cylinder Prime mover and is operable. > > Update: GN 400, the Hustle Muscle, is at the > Minnesota Transportation Museum in St. Paul, > inoperable. > > -John I've been told the engine has a bad crankshaft. BNSF reportedly will fix it, I assume when they find the parts. I do not believe the crankshaft issue of GN 400 is related to the earlier discussion. There's no timetable I'm currently aware of for it's return to service. You might want to check the GN Historical Society site for more details. Nick Tharalson, Marion, IA Date: 11/22/17 08:06 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: TCnR There's a drone Video over the NRE facility on YouTube, amazing sight with all the different models in storage or being used for parts, rebuilds etc. Almost a history of EMD's progression into the larger modern locomotives.
Date: 11/22/17 08:16 Re: Any EMD locomotives left with unmodified 20-645s? Author: MP555 ntharalson Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I've been told the engine has a bad crankshaft. > BNSF reportedly will fix it, > I assume when they find the parts. I do not > believe the crankshaft issue of > GN 400 is related to the earlier discussion. I read that the crankshaft broke while it was being load-tested at Northtown. BNSF donated the engine out of SD45-2 GN 6470. |