Western Railroad Discussion > Track maintenance in long tunnels

How are various MOW work done in long tunnels. How do you change ties. Tamping, rail change out. Exhaust fumes from equipment?

Mike Root
Madras, OR

In Longer tunnels such as Moffat Tunnel they have fans which push out the exhaust. I think they use a few machinces at a time.

Posted from Android

I worked on a work train in the 1980s on the Saugus Line. The tunnel is between Sylmar and Newhall. It is 6958 feet long if memory serves me. I had two GP 9s. At the east end of the tunnel there was a rather large fan that was installed hanging from the entrance but high enough to clear a train. We unloaded many ballast cars. I was issued a respirator. The rule was every 10 minutes the locomotives were shutdown to allow the exhaust gasses to be blown out the west portal. The line was shutdown to traffic for at least a week and all traffic was diverted up the Coast line. There were other track machines in the tunnel that replaced the ties etc. Some sections of rail were replaced with track panels. Hope this helps you Mike.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/23/17 12:37 by SanJoaquinEngr.

Mike is not the only one who wanted to know the
answer to this question. I did, too. Thanks so
much for the answer!

I knew there are fans at the east end of Moffat
Tunnel, but I did not know the tunnel SanJoaquinEngr
wrote about also had fans. Glad they were there!
Are they still there? And I am glad they issued
you MOW guys respirators, but -- did they require
all MOW workers who were going to need to wear
those respirators to take and pass breathing tests
before being allowed to use those respirators? That
is very important, as respirators make it hard to
breathe -- you have to such in the air and push it
out, so no one who had any kind of breathing problems
should ever be required to do any job that requires
them to wear a respirator.

TIA for your answer, and Happy Thanksgiving!

Margaret, I think what he meant is that a fan was hung there temporarily during the work. I have been through there about a half dozen times on a Metrolink and never say any fan at either portal.

jst3751 --
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense. Fans
can always be temporarily installed at tunnel portals
before MOW work starts inside.

A few years ago a railroad employee told me that hay they had been doing a short time amount of work in a tunnel and they barely made it out before becoming overcome by carbon monoxide fumes from the diesel generator they were using. Guess the work was short so they did not set up extra ventilation.

Gary

Posted from iPhone

shortlineboss Wrote
> How do you change ties. Tamping, rail change out.

I’ve wondered the same thing when a track has concrete passenger platforms on both sides close to the track. Or how a rail grinder can pass over pedestrian and highway grade crossings, put a fresh score on the railhead, yet without chewing up the surrounding concrete or asphalt, or the steel flangeway protectors.

Desmond Praetzel, “4451 Puff”

Norfolk Southern MOW engineering folks are known for designing and in house building much of their track maintenance equipment. Below is an example of equipment designed and built for the purpose of ventilating tunnels on the CNO&TP AKA “Rathole” line. These two TVM units were located at the south end of the Oakdale, TN yard this past spring. On a visit to the area just a few weeks ago they were not seen. As rugged as they look they must be functional. That's all that matters!!!

Phil Maton
Villa Rica, GA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/17 02:17 by NSSpike.

---

I always wondered how ties, rail and ballast are replaced in Cascade Tunnel. Makes more sense now.

NSSpike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Norfolk Southern MOW engineering folks are known
> for designing and in house building much of their
> track maintenance equipment. Below is an example
> of equipment designed and built for the purpose of
> ventilating tunnels on the CNO&TP AKA
> “Rathole” line. These two TVM units were
> located at the south end of the Oakdale, TN yard
> this past spring. On a visit to the area just a
> few weeks ago they were not seen. As rugged as
> they look they must be functional. That's all that
> matters!!!

Rail mounted swamp boats. No wonder why they have brakes. :-)

Margaret_SP_fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike is not the only one who wanted to know the
> answer to this question. I did, too. Thanks so
> much for the answer!
>
> I knew there are fans at the east end of Moffat
> Tunnel, but I did not know the tunnel
> SanJoaquinEngr
> wrote about also had fans. Glad they were there!
> Are they still there? And I am glad they issued
> you MOW guys respirators, but -- did they require
> all MOW workers who were going to need to wear
> those respirators to take and pass breathing
> tests
> before being allowed to use those respirators?
> That
> is very important, as respirators make it hard to
>
> breathe -- you have to such in the air and push
> it
> out, so no one who had any kind of breathing
> problems
> should ever be required to do any job that
> requires
> them to wear a respirator.
>
> TIA for your answer, and Happy Thanksgiving!

I remember that during the few days that when working in the tunnel it rained heavily most every day. My conductor, John Wise, would cut the caboose off at the east portal of the tunnel to stay out of the rain ! and also escape the gasses. Remember that the MOW men did not have respirators . The exhaust gasses most always rise to the top of the tunnel. The fans were removed after the completion of the project. Also the undercutter was used to lower the tunnel three feet to accommodate the ability for double stacks to make it through the tunnel without damaging the tunnel and the containers. A side note the two longest tunnels in the Los Angeles area both have water issues. Basically whenever you dig a hole in a mountain there is always ground water that seeps and drips from the roof. Large sump pumps were installed to minimize and pump out the water that accumulates. The long tunnel on the Coat Line between Chatsworth and Santa Susana in 7568 feet long. This tunnel has been plagues with the same water issues. When Metrolink took over the line they made great improvements: great lighting , sump pumps etc.

Interesting story by TAW about how working in tunnels does not have intended outcomes without proper Engineering and planning:

Date: 01/16/17 15:45
The Collapse of the Everett (WA) Tunnel
Author: TAW

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18,4204484,page=1

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Interesting story by TAW about how working in
> tunnels does not have intended outcomes without
> proper Engineering and planning:
>
> Date: 01/16/17 15:45
> The Collapse of the Everett (WA) Tunnel
> Author: TAW
>
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?18
> ,4204484,page=1

...and what it's like working/running through a dirty tunnel: https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1669967,1670453#msg-1670453 Date: 05/13/08 21:44 Re: New Cascade Tunnel Washington

It's noisy in there too.

For changing out ties in a tunnel, there's no work room for the usual method from the outside. It's either dig out the ballast for a stretch of track, gather the ties up until there is room to start turning them parallel to the rails to lift them out, then reverse the process for the new ones. BN also had a machine that would slice the old ties just inside the rails so they could be pulled out in three pieces instead of gathering them. When the gap was long enough, the new ties would then be laid in parallel to the rails, turned and gathered until they were all under the rails, then relocated to the correct spacing. There's nothing easy about changing ties in a tunnel.

TAW

I watched most of the track and tie replacement for the tunnels between Redding and Dunsmuir. Granted, they aren't even close to Moffat length, but a couple are closing in the 1/2 mile range.

The first thing that happened was installing lights inside the full length of the tunnel.

Then, MOW set up camp in an open area (Lakehead in this example) and built as many 90-ish foot, that could fit on an 89' flat, track panels as required for the length of the tunnel.

When those were done, a day was spent moving them into position at either end of the tunnel where the track was to be replaced. All track equipment, including large fans for ventilation were staged into position at the portals as well.

The following Monday, a 24 hour curfew was started after the last Coast Starlight. Crews ripped out all of the track, dug the tunnel down a couple of feet and installed all of the track panels. As much finishing work was done with any time left before the end of the curfew. When the track opened back up for trains, there was of course a temporary speed restriction based on the condition of the track upon opening. Over the next week, MOW forces would take any amount of time they could get to dump ballast and tamp.

While all of this was happening, CWR was dropped along the right of way just outside of the tunnel. On the following Monday, or next time a curfew could be established, rail crews went into the tunnel and replaced all of the jointed rail from the track panels with CWR. Clean up and tamping went on for a week after all of the rail work was completed.

The removed stick rail, was taken back to Lakehead and new track panels were prepared for the next tunnel.


It was quite a fun process to watch.