Western Railroad Discussion > UP retiring Gensets?

I read on multiple people's Instagram accounts (yeah I know super reliable) that UP is planning on retiring the gensets and replacing them with SD60s, which will eventually be upgraded to SD62s. I know a few have already received these upgrades but I didn't think it made them more eco friendly, which was the whole point of the genset. It's no secret gensets aren't great locomotives, but is there any truth to this or is it just a social media rumor?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/17 13:23 by suvart.

Don't know the answer to that yet, but as long as they're planning on using older power, why not bring back steam? :)

Could be that the states that paid for them had a time limit on years of usage. If the years are up and the railroad is not required to still use them then yes they could be retired.

I have ZERO information on if this is true or not, but I can report that they have been using six-axle power on the LOW20 recently, with SD60s in the mix.

It's possible that the extra weight of the graffiti exceeds the weight limits for the poor beasts.

The whole rationalization for them was to receive monetary credits for a new locomotive that has less pollution. Another possibility is the credit limit or service contracts have ended. Seriously doubt they really had a significant reduction in pollution from a modern Tier something diesel, although that may not have been available at the time.

Most of the time many of them were zero-emission, since they hardly ever ran.

Or got hot and quit.

I was told, by the shop foreman,that they are still on the motive power plan for the next five years. However, unless they start sinking some serious cash into them, they aren't going to last that long. I've been towing a couple around, with a GP-60, for the last few weeks, that will idle for a few hours but die, immediately, if you try to make them do work. They're completely useless. They may have been "green" when new but, after all these years with just about zero maintenance, they now spew a thick, nasty, smoke that makes you gag.

They don't tell us much but, I've heard, through the rumor mill, that the clean air subsidies have run out on them and that they have sued the manufacturer over performance issues and won. I'm pretty sure you'll see them go away as replacement power becomes available but a lot of jobs can't use 6-axle units, because of track conditions, and there is a shortage of 4-axle units these days.

crackerjackhoghead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was told, by the shop foreman,that they are
> still on the motive power plan for the next five
> years. However, unless they start sinking some
> serious cash into them, they aren't going to last
> that long. I've been towing a couple around, with
> a GP-60, for the last few weeks, that will idle
> for a few hours but die, immediately, if you try
> to make them do work. They're completely useless.

Is this the reason why some UP local trains in the LA basin have been spotted switching industries with 4+ locomotives? I remember a few months ago someone on this forum photographed a Torrance local train with 7 gensets on the point...

They take a lot of tender loving care and a good builder . the three Gensets on the CCT have an availability over of 99% but they are captive and CCT’s locomotive mechanic is a a certified Cummins Mechanic. UP got a bunch with Dutez engines and there have not been reliable. Plus they have never really given the shop forces the proper classes on the Gensets so they are not very well maintained. Brookville has been great on any issues and there some different components than the other 2 builders UP has used. They do save about 38% on fuel use and they are cleaner but then the CCT SW1500 Tiier 0 locomotives are maintained with the best fuel injector technology out there and they are clean burning and with the best injectors save about 8% over the old style EMD injectors on fuel. Again a captive fleet and the employees are and engineers are very good at running booth types and reporting any issues and then it’s fixed ASAP.
Preventive maintenance is the only way to maintain locomotives not by failures.

Wait...did you say UP is short on 4-axle power??  Is this the same UP that been selling off hordes of 4-axle power, like SW-1500s, MP-15s, GP-38s, etc.?  You gotta wonder...

cctgm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They take a lot of tender loving care and a good
> builder . the three Gensets on the CCT have an
> availability over of 99% but they are captive and
> CCT’s locomotive mechanic is a a certified
> Cummins Mechanic. UP got a bunch with Dutez
> engines and there have not been reliable. Plus
> they have never really given the shop forces the
> proper classes on the Gensets so they are not very
> well maintained. Brookville has been great on any
> issues and there some different components than
> the other 2 builders UP has used. They do save
> about 38% on fuel use and they are cleaner but
> then the CCT SW1500 Tiier 0 locomotives are
> maintained with the best fuel injector technology
> out there and they are clean burning and with the
> best injectors save about 8% over the old style
> EMD injectors on fuel. Again a captive fleet and
> the employees are and engineers are very good at
> running booth types and reporting any issues and
> then it’s fixed ASAP.
> Preventive maintenance is the only way to maintain
> locomotives not by failures.

I'm not defending UP's or anyone else's maintenance practices, but railroads expect locomotives to RUN, not go to the shop every night. From what I've heard, the current expectation is that a newer locomotive will go it's entire service interval without doing anything but adding consumables. If the gensets can't do that, then they are not up to the task.

>
> I'm not defending UP's or anyone else's
> maintenance practices, but railroads expect
> locomotives to RUN, not go to the shop every
> night. From what I've heard, the current
> expectation is that a newer locomotive will go
> it's entire service interval without doing
> anything but adding consumables. If the gensets
> can't do that, then they are not up to the task.


Well, if you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Colorado
I'll be willing to see you cheap! While railroads may not want locomotives
to go to the shop every night, expecting them to run without failure their
entire lives is unrealistic at best.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

ntharalson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I'm not defending UP's or anyone else's
> > maintenance practices, but railroads expect
> > locomotives to RUN, not go to the shop every
> > night. From what I've heard, the current
> > expectation is that a newer locomotive will go
> > it's entire service interval without doing
> > anything but adding consumables. If the gensets
> > can't do that, then they are not up to the
> task.
>
>
> Well, if you believe that, I have some ocean front
> property in Colorado
> I'll be willing to see you cheap! While railroads
> may not want locomotives
> to go to the shop every night, expecting them to
> run without failure their
> entire lives is unrealistic at best.
>
> Nick Tharalson,
> Marion, IA

That's not what he wrote. He said it's "entire service interval" which would mean every 91 days. I've had the misfortune of having to run many of UP's junk sets. Even when they were new they always had problems. From not starting, not loading, not being able to change ends, along with temperamental AC/heating units. One major safety issue I had with them was crossing between units. The walkways at each end of the units is so tight you have to swing yourself out over the steps to clear the sides of the carbody.-BMT

Well, there was some reasoning behind allowing the railroads to extend the 92 day inspection interval to 184 days on newer units. They simply should not need constant tinkering to keep them in reasonable operating condition.

usmc1401 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could be that the states that paid for them had a
> time limit on years of usage. If the years are up
> and the railroad is not required to still use them
> then yes they could be retired.


This is it. At least in Roseville. The hump sets are nearing the end of their state mandated usage and will be dumped immediately.

They pull incredibly well, but are so unreliable that we need a three unit set just to ensure enough working pods to have the power to pull cuts out of the receiving yard. It's not uncommon for the three unit set to have 5 or less (out of 9) pods working.

I know of atleast one railroad who sued the genset manufacture over the contract's performance guarantee and won, it wasn't UP, but they could have also.

Things make me crazy! Gensets in industrial applications are like a pet rock, they're always there and they always
work. It should not have been this ridiculous struggle to put a working concept in a locomotive and make it work.
We've piggybacked hydraulic pump drives on gensets where the service interval is six months and the things run up
to 24 hours per day. And believe me, our power requirements and duty cycles are way above what a switcher demands.
So, shoutout to all you manufacturers who screwed these things up-idiots!

Out

It sounded like alot of the genset frustration was surrounded with the chopper design used.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/13/17 10:40 by Entropy.

As an FYI to all,

UP is using GP15's or GP38's in combination with an SD60 on heavy switching at North Yard here in Salt Lake City...

ShastaDaylight