Western Railroad Discussion > Los Angeles signalling question

I have never seen a Lunar signal. Is there any in the LA/Ventura/Orang area to see lit up?

Thanks in advance.

Only one I can think of off the top of my head is unfortunately all the way to San Diego . . . And its been so long since I've been down there, with all the PTC work not sure if it even still exists.

The color isn't white, it has a blueish hue to keep the glare down so it doesn't look like a headlight.

They may have changed the rule but on the SP, it was used as an indication where a low yellow or low green would not work. In other words, going into a siding you would get a red over yellow and that meant the track was clear to the other end of the siding. If you got a red over lunar, it meant the track could be occupied by another train or anything. In other words, restricted speed.

There were other uses but they would be IDed in the special instructions.

Nudge

I'm pretty sure that I've seen a lunar aspect displayed at Garfield, CP C 007, on the UP Los Angeles Sub for a westbound train lined into the yard (LA East Yard) there. This signal is in Montebello, a little bit east of downtown LA, right at the west end of the Montebello Metrolink Station.

John


CPRR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never seen a Lunar signal. Is there any in
> the LA/Ventura/Orang area to see lit up?
>
> Thanks in advance.

SantaFe126 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm pretty sure that I've seen a lunar aspect
> displayed at Garfield, CP C 007, on the UP Los
> Angeles Sub for a westbound train lined into the
> yard (LA East Yard) there. This signal is in
> Montebello, a little bit east of downtown LA,
> right at the west end of the Montebello Metrolink
> Station.
>
> John
>
>
> CPRR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I have never seen a Lunar signal. Is there any
> in
> > the LA/Ventura/Orang area to see lit up?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.

Thank you sir.

Signals aspects are all over the place,
I seem to remember some towers, back on the east coast, where if u couldnt clear a signal, there was a button u cud push that would give u bottom lunar on a selected signal, essentially overriding the interlocking. It was the same as talking someone by a signal, but in the pre-radio days, there was no way talk to the C&E, so the bottom lunar was used.

Also sometimes when going into a pocket track, u cud get bottom yellow if the track is not occupied, bottom lunar if it is. Leaving signaled track for unsignaled track...it seems to be at the descretion of whoever built the plant. Bottom yellow, bottom lunar. Single head signals in that situation back in the olden days would just give a yellow "approach". Then I think they started using lunar in busier places, and more recently (like the last 25 years), its just been flashing red....seems to me, anyway....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/18 21:49 by pdt.

Not sure if they’re still there as I haven’t been on the road for years now, but there used to be a lunar signal on the approach to Badger Bridge onto Terminal Island (part of the PHL). Also pretty sure eastbound BNSF manifests (LACBAR, WATBAR, SDGBAR, WCLBAR, etc...) pulling into West Barstow’s Recieving Yard were given some sort of a lunar lite when entering.


Mr. MRL

On the Metrolink Valley Sub, CP Bonita in Lancaster has a Lunar to allow trains to enter an occupied track, the main track at the station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/18 17:55 by SP4360.

There's a number of places where you can see a lunar in the ports of L.A. and Long Beach. Look for any control point that is at the end of controlled track where trains enter 6.28 track. Trains leaving controlled track usually get a lunar at these location.

Here's one from Alaska. I wasn't on duty, just going for a ride after going dead-on-the-law.

---

At the former SP Los Nietos there are several Lunars. Both sides of the signals on the 'La Habra' line crossing the BNSF.

The SP interlocking next to DT Junction displays lunars to the Los Nietos Yard, and to both of the governed branches. On the way to Studebaker, the signal at the end of double track gives a lunar, as does the signal at the wye at Studebaker when lined either towards Anaheim or Patata.

Lunars displayed both directins on the former PE at the Bell interlocking.
G

I can’t tell you this history of them, but on my RR and specifically at my terminal - at the east end of the yard you get a lunar to go in. If going back to your train on the main, you get a
Flashing red.

West end, you get a restricting (flashing red). There is no provision for a fourth light.

Both mean the same thing.

My guess is as signal systems evolved, you could eliminate a fourth light.

Just a guess.

Posted from iPhone

UP tends to use the Lunar (for restricting, vs flashing red) aspect when going from signaled to unsignaled track. For instance when you are lined down the freight leads west out at Garfield Xovers in Montebello (going into east yard),or when lined down a branch line (WO Tower in Pomona is another example). The flashing reds I’ve seen on UP, tend to be when your being “called on” into an occupied block...

Lunar was used in CTC territory on the SP to enter non-signaled or non-bonded track as someone stated earlier. There's likely still a lunar for westbounds into the siding at the East (South) switch Santa Margarita if it has not yet been changed. Kinda far from LA, sorry.

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not sure if they’re still there as I haven’t
> been on the road for years now, but there used to
> be a lunar signal on the approach to Badger Bridge
> onto Terminal Island (part of the PHL). Also
> pretty sure eastbound BNSF manifests (LACBAR,
> WATBAR, SDGBAR, WCLBAR, etc...) pulling into West
> Barstow’s Recieving Yard were given some sort of
> a lunar lite when entering.
>
>
> Mr. MRL

That was still there as of about 2 years ago.

Back when the T&P had spring switches on passing tracks the signal approaching the switch had a one bulb round signal that was lunar under the three color signal..  It was  bluish white.  The purpose of it was 2 things.  If the spring switch did not properly align the signal would come on.  The other purpose was when a short train such as a passenger train passed half the length between it and the other signal at the other end it would come on bluish white.

See attached photo.  It has two sidings facing each other, so each facing signal has the one position lunar.

Stuart Sutton photo.
 

---

Metrolink arrival Riverside Calif on UP  ??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/19 21:49 by mundo.

Oh...I cant get over everyone trying to make sense of signaling.    Its so all over the place.  Even on one fairly homogeneous railroad (like the Erie, for example) .  Most of the signals were typical NORAC rules type 3 head interlocking signals, and 1 or 2 head automatics.  But at any interlocking, the aspects given were whatever was built at the time.  There was no complete standardization to it.   At Coalberg Jct, (Bergen county line, North Jersey), there were position light train order signals.  Why PRR style position lights? who knows. IDK if there were signals like that any where else on the Erie....

My semi- understanding of the Lunar white, was that it was the "fourth color" to correspond to the PRR backwards diagonal "restricting" position light.  This was all way before there were any flashing signals, for extra aspects. 

On the Pennsy,  Horizontal over foward diagonal (red over yellow) was Slow Approach.  Proceed at slow speed prepared to stop at next signal.  Generally used going thru an interlocking requiring slow speed...block ahead is unoccupied, but next signal is stop.
Horizontal over backwards diagonal was restricting...proceed prepared to stop ahead of train or obstruction.  Generally meant u were going into an occupied block (or dark territory)
So in order for the railroads that had  color light signals to be able to differentiate between a slow approach and a restricting...the bottom lunar white was used as the restricting indication.   From there tho...lunar whites have been used in all sorts of signals..but generally its on the bottom head, to give a restricting indication.  On a single head signal...same thing.  yellow was approach...so if u wanted to be able to give restricting...u use the lunar white.

Many railroads (at least in my experience)  just used for bottom yellow as restricting, and hand no slow approach.  and Ive seen single head approach (yellow) signals , or stop and proceed's leading to dark territory, when there was no lunar white displayable.  

I just looked up the former seaboard RR signal aspects...they had bottom yellow as slow approach, and bottom lunar white as restricting.........  Where I worked on the Erie, bottom yellow was restricting. 

Make any sense????       Of course this is all NORAC type signalling and aspect names, the general gist of which goes back over 100 years.    Dont ask me about that new fangled GCOR stuff.  

IIRC, the Ventura Railway had lunar signals to indicate that the crossing signals had actuated properly.
...Lorenzo