Western Railroad Discussion > San Diego Union article on Carrizo Gorge rail line

From the San Diego Union/Tribune - 
Long-awaited desert rail line, touted as regional economic boom, continues to clear hurdles
13 OCT 2018

Progress is accelerating on reviving a defunct rail line connecting the San Diego-Tijuana region to El Centro, which could be a local economic catalyst that would reduce border congestion and take thousands of trucks off local roads.
 
Negotiations are under way with U.S. officials on an inspection site in Campo, and the company rehabilitating the 70-mile stretch of rail is studying how to relocate endangered species in the desert that would be affected by the project.
 
The company, Baja Rail, has also begun analyzing how to repair or rebuild dozens of damaged tunnels and bridges along the route, company spokesman Jorge Izquierdo told San Diego City Council members last week.

More here:  http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-tijuana-railroad-20181013-story.html 

 

I wish them success but having previously lived in the San Diego area for 44 years I know this is not the first effort to revive Spreckles' railroad. As the article states it's a very difficult area to access and is subject to rock slides and fires on a regular basis.

"Because the route is relatively curved, trains would be limited to a maximum of 60 cars, said Izquierdo, estimating that five to six trains a day would travel the route when it becomes operational."

Now, what'd I do with that deed to the Brooklyn Bridge?

Out

The video included with the SD U-T article is a rerun made a year or so ago!
In the opening minutes of the crossing into Mexico shown in the video, the train
passes the 2 BJRR painted units. The 3906 was dead, it and another leased
LTEX units were returned to LTEX a few months ago!

A lot of their traffic has been diverted to the San Diego County region for transload
to trucks for forwarding into Mexico and the LPG traffic is slowly diminishing as
pipelines and barges are replacing rail shipment!

While BJRR has cleared the ex CNW Bi-Level cars blocking the mainline at Dubbers
Spur, MP 96 and have cleared most of the rockfalls, except the major fall at the east
portal of Tunnel 16, MP 102.45, there hasn't been much more happening along the line.

One new item to mention, BJRR is running occasional patrols in the gorge, with SD County
Sheriff Deputies riding along to deter trespassing, along with the fact that they have reinstalled
and are locking gates at Tunnels 5 and 6 at the west end of the gorge and Tunnels 20 and 21
at the east end!

My understanding is that BJRR is running 1 maybe 2 trains a week on the Mexican portion
of the SD&AE!

Mike

I'll buy the first thru ticket even if I must box myself up and go as cargo!

From the article:

Rehabilitation of the rail line, which ceased operations in 1950 . . .

Huh?  The SD&AE discontinued PASSENGER service in 1951, so if that's what they were trying to express, they even botched THAT up.

Is there ANYTHING that we can believe from the news media anymore?   

CA_Sou_MA_Agent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there ANYTHING that we can believe from the
> news media anymore?

In today's society, what matters is how you feel, not facts. In other words, reaction is more important than solving problems.

If you are comfortable keeping your sanity in a room full of liars, you're ahead of most people. :-)

This is always an interesting topic. Although through passenger service ended in 1951, Mexican passengers were accommodated in a combine added to the freight train between Tijuana and Tecate. I can't be certain of the year this was discontinued but I believe it was 1961.

Jeff Geldner
Sequoia National Park, CA

Is there really any demand for direct freight service from San Diego and El Centro?
BNSF seems to be able to handle it all with just 4 trains a day. Not exactly stressing the facilities.

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there really any demand for direct freight
> service from San Diego and El Centro?
> BNSF seems to be able to handle it all with just 4
> trains a day. Not exactly stressing the
> facilities.

Little and none

Wow. I did not think that Baja produced that much that is shipped to the US. As for the line, if there was enough money, parts of it could be straightened out, not in the gorge itself, but other places.

How are they going to handle the museum trains from Campo? Would the trestles in th canyon handle all of this traffic? Will UP like this new traffic coming into El Centro? From what I have read, UP is now running the line from the border to Niland, the the local comes down from Colton to pick up to sort the cars. I can see all of this new traffic affecting that operation.

The only good thing coming from this would be a well put together motor car trip could be organized to run the line. That would be sweet

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If and when (and likely never) a major container and/or bulk port is built in/near Ensenada, a new or rehabilitated rail line makes no sense.  BNSF’s traffic is one manifest each way (occasionally two) and one vehicle train each way.  The vehicle trains don’t run every day. And some days the manifest is as small as 40 cars. A much more aggressive shortline operator of the whole line might be able to bump things up, but it is unlikely they could ever get enough to justify two manifests per day on a regular basis. The vehicle traffic could increase some, but the area to expand the terminals is very limited, and operators seem happy.  Plus opposition from the local folks would likely limit that too.  Bulk moves that ATSF and for a while BNSF ran might still be possible, but would likely amount to a train or two a week, IF the port of San Diego – and again the local folks – would support it, which is questionable. The Toyota plant could go to direct loading with a new spur and loading area, but this is traffic that already is trucked to National City or San Diego (the old/short-lived intermodal ramp) anyway, so likely there would be no noticeable increase of rail traffic, and would not move east of Del Campo.  It could provide added rail traffic between the plant and the BNSF interchange in San Diego, but that’s all.
 
Why?  San Diego and Tijuana are sub-markets of the greater LA Basin.  Most goods consumed in the area, and those that are “produced” in the area (really, they are generally “assembled” in the area, and really not that much), come from or go to the regional and national DCs that make up bulk of industrial space in the Basin. There is a good amount of container traffic from the ports of LA/LB for parts and components going to the border areas, and a limited amount spread throughout San Diego County. A government-subsidized shuttle train from the ports to a ramp near the border could be possible, but very, very unlikely. It would not move to/from the east.  Finished products will continue to move from the area up to these RDCs and NDCs, where consolidation and shipping in larger quantities justifies the intermodal ramps in the Basin.  Most of the traffic will stay on I-5 and I-15.
 
Take away the agricultural products from the Imperial Valley (both sides of the border), Yuma area (both sides of the border), southwest Phoenix area, and Blythe area, and the LTL traffic (plus package traffic) that is relatively dispersed, and the amount of TL truck traffic going to any focused location that would support intermodal or convertible to carload is very limited.  And will never justify a new, re-aligned route.  Nor would it support a Desert Line rebuilt to mainline standards. BNSF came to this conclusion when it abandoned intermodal service to San Diego (sometime around 1989???) after having built the small ramp I noted above on the northeast side of their SD yard off of Harbor Drive.  In aerial photos you can still see the lift equipment concrete tire strips. There was nowhere near the volume of traffic that went nationally into SD, and there still isn’t. 
 
Let the Desert Line live on as a San Ysidro – Tecate shortline, and in memories, books and photos, and some excursions.  That’s all it will be good for.    

Bruce



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/18 09:48 by StStephen.

If they wanted to, BNSF could probably run a lot more freight in and out of San Diego, but with all the passenger operations on that line, they recognize that their options are limited.  As it is now, almost all of the intermodal traffic (and there's a lot of it) is loaded / off-loaded at San Bernardino and pounds the pavement of Interstate 15 to and from San Diego.  I have heard that the intermodal yard at San Bernardino is now busier than Hobart Yard in L.A. 

It sounds to me like there could be a sizable amount of freight that could switch from rubber tires to rail.   



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/18 14:37 by CA_Sou_MA_Agent.

Hobart alone (not counting the old Auto-Veyer facility off of Eastern) does about 1.2 million lifts/year, including use of several remote lots.  This is about 85% domestic, 15% international.  As more on-docks are built, this number should shift more to the favor of domestic.  If SCIG is ever built, the international traffic would all but go away, and Hobart would be almost all domestic.  Hobart currently has some reconfiguration of the shorter tracks near the mains underway to up the estimated capacity to around 1.5 million lifts/year.  San Bernardino’s capacity, including the remote lots, is a little over 600,000 lifts/year.  BNSF has the CalP Cement/Quarry property under contract and is going through the environmental assessment/mitigation planning.  If this comes to fruition, they will move the vehicle traffic out of San Bernardino, and should get the capacity of SB up to around 1.0 to 1.2 million lifts/year. If that happens it is about 5 to 8 years out.  
 
Most of the truck traffic on I-15 is going to the DCs in the Inland Empire. Again, San Diego/Tijuana are submarkets of the LA Basin.  That means stores and businesses are primarily fed off of the industrial sites within the Basin. You can go online and look up industrial market/inventory in San Diego County. In reviewing reports, you will see a match between what is talked about and what aerial maps show you: the amount of DCs in the SD/TJ market are relatively small, and the size of them relatively small. In other words, they are support facilities to the Basin, either for limited cross-border industrial uses or for localized short-term supply. A number of years ago I did a DC in Tijuana and got a look at the market there.  Mostly support for the Basin, and where assembly or packaging was necessary it was a cheaper labor option.  Very limited heavy industry, virtually no RDCs or NDCs. 
 
Also, look at the truck counts for I-8.  Take out the wet van traffic and the counts are not that high. There simply is not enough long-haul traffic out of SD/TJ to support an intermodal ramp in today’s operating environment, and likely won’t ever be.  If there was a large enough market, the nighttime window that BNSF could operate into/out of SD would support several more trains in each direction.  Carload traffic is minimal for boxcars: it is generally now bulk and heavy shipments.  BNSF already gets a good amount of that.  Some could be shifted to San Diego County, but not much.  Certainly not enough for another manifest train. 

Bruce 
 

Most current rail traffic into San Diego are loads with empties going out!
The autoracks are the only loads that I know of going north out of San Diego
and that includes finished vehicles from the Toyota plant near Tecate! These
vehicles are trucked across the border and taken to National City for loading
in autoracks. MTS/SD Trolley will not allow this traffic on the Blue Line from
San Ysidro to San Diego! CZRY ran test trains of autoracks and doublestacks
through the gorge and went as far west as Tunnel 4 at the US/Mexico border
just west of Campo, CA.

Traffic to Tijuana has dropped off as loads are redirected to transload facilites in
San Diego County and trucked acrross to Mexico.

To rehabilitate the SD&AE, it will take upwards of $100 Million Dollars to rebuild/
replace trestles, tunnel linings and to create more capacity to the line!

Mike

2720 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most current rail traffic into San Diego are loads
> with empties going out!
> The autoracks are the only loads that I know of
> going north out of San Diego
> and that includes finished vehicles from the
> Toyota plant near Tecate! These
> vehicles are trucked across the border and taken
> to National City for loading
> in autoracks. MTS/SD Trolley will not allow this
> traffic on the Blue Line from
> San Ysidro to San Diego! CZRY ran test trains of
> autoracks and doublestacks
> through the gorge and went as far west as Tunnel 4
> at the US/Mexico border
> just west of Campo, CA.
>
> Traffic to Tijuana has dropped off as loads are
> redirected to transload facilites in
> San Diego County and trucked acrross to Mexico.
>
> To rehabilitate the SD&AE, it will take upwards of
> $100 Million Dollars to rebuild/
> replace trestles, tunnel linings and to create
> more capacity to the line!
>
> Mike


Does the cantenary on the Blue Line even clear a Tri-Level or even a Bi-Level? I can see why they're concerned.

I rode over this line, in 2004, on a test train from Plaster City to Jacumba.  Train had double stacks, multi-levels, etc.  This was when the CZRY was trying to get the line reopened, trying to get the UP's interest.  It would be a very difficult, and expensive, piece of RR to run with today's equipment.  I don't know of anything further that happened as a result of that test train.

That ride gave me the willies in this respect:  The Goat Canyon trestle is not only high but on a curve.  I was riding on the point of a GP9, or somesuch, when we started over the trestle.  No sooner were we on it when the locomotive started to pitch over to the side.  My thought was, "Here we go!" until I realized that the trestle had superelevation.

I agree this is a pipe dream again and again... I am pro railroad ... Having been employed for nearly 50 years in RR industry. Have heard and seen so many attempts to reopen this line ever since the 1970s. I see operational problems with interchanging on both ends of the line with the UP and Santa Fe. Maybe this attempt will be successful. Once one pencils out the real costs of repairs, upgrades, equipment accquiring, labor, overruns etc. The real costs will never recaptured.

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