Western Railroad Discussion > Polar Vortex vs. BNSF

AMTRAK has cancelled all trains into and out of Chicago for the next 2 days.  But, will BNSF do the same. especially on their ex-GN line in the upper midwest states???  Do they plan on running normally, or holding back a few days?

I doubt they will shut down if they can help it. They will run as many trains as conditions permit.

CS

CaliforniaSteam Wrote:
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> I doubt they will shut down if they can help it.
> They will run as many trains as conditions
> permit.
>
> CS

They have and should. Scanners silent in Mandan, Fargo/Dilworth, Minot
They MAY try to move some trains this afternoon.
BB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/19 05:09 by bmarti7.

It is colder over a good part of the Midwest than it currently is on Mars. Really.
http://www.mikesmithenterprisesblog.com/2019/01/current-us-wind-chills.html

The big thing BNSF is concerned with it pull-aparts due to rail contraction in the cold. Can't see them at night. They also have to keep the locomotives running 24/7 due to fuel issues in the extreme cold. 

Yah, but that minus 98 for a low is a killer.

MSE Wrote:
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>They also have to keep
> the locomotives running 24/7 due to fuel issues in
> the extreme cold. 

More likely coolant issues.  Many locomotives still use plain water, not anti-freeze, for coolant.  Even current generation locomotives with Automatic Engine Start Stop (AESS) are programmed so that the AESS will not shut the prime mover down if the outside ambient temperature is below 32° F.  So, the locomotives would be idling 24/7, anyway.  Locomotives equipped with coolant heating systems (for example, the HotStart system that uses the locomotive's diesel fuel to fuel coolant heating and coolant circulation systems) will shut down the prime mover only if the system can keep the coolant temperature high enough to allow the prime mover to warm start (likely a coolant temperature of 100° F.+).  If it can't maintain that temperature, then those prime movers won't be shut down, either.  Most modern locomotive prime movers are also set up to automatically elevate their idle RPM (and fuel usage) to maintain prime mover operating temperature in very cold conditions.

Locomotives may also have fuel tank heaters to keep fuel at non-gelling temperature--those require the prime mover to be running (which it likely would be, anyway, to meet the conditions outlined above), but even fuel tank heaters are not a substitute for using winter-blended diesel fuel.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/19 07:46 by WW.

Does “winter blend diesel fuel” contain Prist or some other kind of anti-freeze element?

Posted from iPhone

Alco251 Wrote:
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> Does “winter blend diesel fuel” contain Prist
> or some other kind of anti-freeze element?


Must admit that I have never heard of "winter blend diesel fuel" in the railroad industry. Virtually all modern diesel electric units now have fuel oil pre-heaters, and since there is a separate fuel pump constantly circulating the diesel fuel from the tank, through the pre-heater, to the engine, and back to the fuel tank, the old problems with #2 diesel fuel "waxing up" and plugging fuel filters is pretty much a thing of the past.

Winter blend diesel fuel is usually a mixture (often 50/50) of #2 diesel fuel and #1 diesel fuel.  Such a winter blend usually won't gel down to about -25° to -30° F.  Below those temperatures, pure #1 diesel won't gel down to around -40° to -50° F.  Below that, either kerosene or jet fuel can be used, but that is hard on engines.

Yes, locomotives (and a lot of heavy equipment and trucks) have fuel pre-heaters and circulation systems to prevent gelling of plain #2 diesel fuel, but I have even seen those not up to the task when temperatures get low enough.  Dealing with all the issues of trying to get a diesel with gelled fuel running again is absolutely no fun.  Been there, done that.

Back in the days before AESS and HotStart systems, most locomotives were left running without being shut off between 30 day inspections.  The extra fuel use and engine wear was deemed an acceptable trade-off to the frequent difficulties of restarting a prime mover or risking coolant freeze-ups, and the like.  Also, large metal masses (such as diesel locomotive prime movers) were thought to survive better if the mass was kept at a fairly even temperature.  Even today, AESS systems will keep the prime mover temperature in a fairly narrow range for this reason.

Signal system will take care of the pull apart issue. If the rail breaks under a train, then things could get interesting. Most locomotives sit around idling anyway.

MSE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> The big thing BNSF is concerned with it
> pull-aparts due to rail contraction in the cold.
> Can't see them at night. They also have to keep
> the locomotives running 24/7 due to fuel issues in
> the extreme cold. 

CaliforniaSteam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I doubt they will shut down if they can help it.
> They will run as many trains as conditions
> permit.
>
> CS

Other things are going to impact whether many trains will run, like how many crews will come to work; or even how many trains will be made up, cars switched, etc in this extreme cold.  I can bet yard crews are not going outside for very long, as well as maintanence crews for track, switches, signals, etc are probably not going to be getting much done out in the cold.

The problems we are having up here in MN and NoDak is air.  Fort Worth still believes they can beat science.

When have been told to expect extra switching and trains being built in Spokane/Hauser this week.

They are still building 7k trains out of NTW to go west today and tonight.  What part of science does BNSF management not understand?  Why would you insist on beating your head against the wall by building trains this big that will not move after sunset no matter how many DP's you put on them whereas if you built them 3k you could at least move freight?  It never ceases to amaze me the incomprehensible boneheadedness of management.  Of course, if one could ask Carl Ice in person, I'm sure we would get some long-winded answer that had nothing to do with reality and all about operating ratio nonsense.

WW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back in the days before AESS and HotStart systems,
> most locomotives were left running without being
> shut off between 30 day inspections.  The extra
> fuel use and engine wear was deemed an acceptable
> trade-off to the frequent difficulties of
> restarting a prime mover or risking coolant
> freeze-ups, and the like.  Also, large metal
> masses (such as diesel locomotive prime movers)
> were thought to survive better if the mass was
> kept at a fairly even temperature.  Even today,
> AESS systems will keep the prime mover temperature
> in a fairly narrow range for this reason.

This makes sense, Thermal Cycling is normally one of the leading causes of metal failure due to fatigue. I work in an engineering group for ADM, and one of the biggest design issues we have is adequately designing pipe with a long lifespan when thermal cycling occurs often.
Keep the locomotive at a constant temp; drastically reduce thermal cycling = longer life until failure.

They seem to be running better than my car did this am.

BNSF is running some trains west on the Northern Transcon-2 by the house in the last 30 minutes. Evergreen Stacks and a sand train. North LaCrosse has several trains staged in Yard. Local power(I think) went past eastward headed back to North La Crosse. PTI vans on my way home to Trempealeau show they are crewing stuff out there as well. Approaching darkness here. -15 degreesF on the outdoor weather station.

Dave Burman
Modeling the modern Twin Cities
Trempealeau, WI 

Where the cold has really had an effect is terminal processing especially at the Intermodal yards.  Several  WB Z trains have been annulled and we are staging trains on the transcon on the Marceline sub and until yesterday had 2 stack trains parked on the Clovis sub.  Hopefully with the weather improving starting tomorrow they'll be able to get the backlog processed and get operations back to some simblance of normalcy.

Santa Fe