Western Railroad Discussion > Rotaries yet another victim of PSR?

With the Sierra snowpack at 162% and all the storms up there one would think it would definitely "rotary time" on Donner. UP brought out their second rebuild which broke down (badly, I might point out) and that seems to have been it for the rotaries. Hmmmmmm..................is this embarrassment on the part of UP or..............horrors!..........more effects of dreaded PSR? 
Inquiring minds want to know!  
Note - this is NOT April Fools' I really would like some thoughts, opinions, ideas, etc. 

Have fun, be safe,

Bruce "Doc" Jones    Sierra Madre CA

They'll come out as needed

WAF Wrote:
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> They'll come out as needed

As an old timer  as I went thru old magazines before looking at the times they were out,  that is the case. 
Every year railfans "What about the rotaries".

What I saw this year I could only speculate they tried to use them somewhat as needed(maybe not really), somewhat to see how the equipment was ready, not so well I guess??

Bob

2011 the rear rotary derailed and had to be cut off and left behind so only one was used and the line was closed for 3 days, then in 2017 the rear rotaries steam generator broke so again only one rotary was used, and if you look back at 1952 rotaries derailed and a passenger train was stuck for six days passenger's for 3. so this years drama is just another year on donner, people need to chill  



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/19 19:10 by traindave.

What connection would exists between PSR and use of rotaries?

As stated elsewhere, they run as needed. I rode over the hill last week, they are not needed at this time. They don't bring them out for fun, they bring them out when everything else fails, or they can no longer push the bank back. unless there is another major storm, or an avalanche, they will not be out.

Posted from Android

I have no comment on UP and PSR one way or another, as the ultimate outcome on the RR remains to be seen, but as to snowfighting, the guys on the ground in Truckee have worked their butts off all winter long to fight snow. They have done an excellent job doing so, in the face of heavy, heavy snow, and they are to be commended for their efforts.

Yes, there was a series of wet, high-water content snowfall in late February that caused multiple Flangers and a Spreader to derail. Heavy, wet snow is basically a worst-case scenario when it comes to fighting snow, and snow equipment derailing is inevitable.  SP had similar problems in these types of storms, but the Internet wasn’t around in those days to bash SP, and now with hindsight it is easy to be critical of UP and praise SP. Has UP made mistakes in the time since they have owned Donner? Of course. But the constant “SP knew how to run that hill, UP is clueless” talk is simply revisionist history and an insult to the guys on the ground in Truckee.

Here are some FACTS as it pertains to the rotaries on Donner this winter:

• The SPMW 222 indeed suffered a major failure on its initial run.  To my knowledge, that is an issue yet to be resolved
• The SPMW 207 was used to clear main 2 from Shed 10 to Soda Springs on March 1. It cut back the snowbanks as well as clearing out snow spread in its path off of main 1  and the core
• On March 4, the 207 worked back west from Truckee, first on main 2 above donner lake (SP main 1), then main 1 Norden to Soda Springs, finally returning to Roseville after that on main 2, doing minor work along the way
• After the above use, there simply has been no need to use the rotaries anymore

 
While I don’t intend to attack anyone personally, it is very frustrating to sit back and read railfans criticizing a bunch of hardworking men that have worked their butts off all winter. It’s been a rough winter on Donner but everyone pulled through and kept the line open and should be commended for doing so.
 

• James Schlinger

This is at Norden about a week ago.  The RR is quite "tidy" as you can see-  the snow around the leg of the signal bridge is your 160%, but the rest of the area has been cleared.  Storms now are increasingly spring-like.  Warmer (higher snowline) and longer days add to melting.
The Rotarys don't require PSR equipment, they're gliders- they can't move on their own.
SR

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You know, conspiracy theories.

JGFuller Wrote:
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> What connection would exists between PSR and use
> of rotaries?

I heard SP 222 suffered a main rotary shaft bearing failure shortl;y after it started to work in real (i.e., HEAVY) Donner snow. I can't help but wonder if the rebuild people used a standard bearing instead of something designed to handle lateral (in-line) impact forces.

Hope it was under warranty!    

Maybe the Union Pacific needs the Snow Dragon Technology!

Snow Dragon is designed to be used in removing dense piles of snow from  places like airports.  Plows assemble huge piles of densely packed snow and ice, which are  pushed into Dragon by conveyors or bucket loaders, melted on a hot surface, and removed as water.

U can see the technology in action on the Tube.  New York City has several similar devices on flat bed trailers for use in densely congested areas where plows won't be efficient.

A hundred foot high column of water spraying out the side of a Union Pacific Snow Dragon would be very cool...

djansson Wrote:
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> I heard SP 222 suffered a main rotary shaft
> bearing failure shortl;y after it started to work
> in real (i.e., HEAVY) Donner snow. I can't help
> but wonder if the rebuild people used a standard
> bearing instead of something designed to handle
> lateral (in-line) impact forces.

Reportedly, the main wheel shaft bearings were "up-graded" to roller bearings. Unless they were special tapered roller bearings, i.e. designed to withstand heavy thrust loading, the so-called "standard" roller bearings would not have lasted very long. Some obvious questions:

1) Are the other "completely rebuilt" rotaries still equipped with the original oil lubricated plain bearings?

2) If the "old/original" plain bearings worked so well, for well more than 6 or 7 decades, why change them?


> Hope it was under warranty!    

I'm sure the outside contractor that rebuilt #222 will handle the "warranty" issues.

It is my understanding that although the 207 & 222 were rebuilt by different firms, the bearings used in both came from the same supplier in Sacramento.
Obviously that bearing has worked well in the 207, so it’s failure in the 222 will require more that a simple arm-chair diagnosis/ solution- forensics come into play...
SR

BoilingMan Wrote:
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> It is my understanding that although the 207 & 222
> were rebuilt by different firms, the bearings used
> in both came from the same supplier in Sacramento.
>
> Obviously that bearing has worked well in the 207,
> so it’s failure in the 222 will require more
> that a simple arm-chair diagnosis/ solution-
> forensics come into play...
> SR

Thanks, that information answers the question about "other" rotary plows being up-graded to roller bearings on the main wheel shaft, i.e. #207. Thus, it really shouldn't be that difficult to find the root cause of the bearing failure on #222.

Yeah, but I heard it's a pain to get to!   I guess it could be any one of a number of things- alignment, manufacturing defect, etc, etc...    I expect we'll get the full story eventually.
SR

Willing to bet that the bearing failure on SPMW 222 was due to either the bearing being "bad out of the box" or the installation was not perfectly aligned.
I'm leaning towards "bad out of the box". This was a failure that didn't show up until the bearing was under heavy loads for an extended period.
Something that would be pretty hard to duplicate unless you're plowing 6 foot deep Sierra Cement snow.

PHall Wrote:
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> Willing to bet that the bearing failure on SPMW
> 222 was due to either the bearing being "bad out
> of the box" or the installation was not perfectly
> aligned.
> I'm leaning towards "bad out of the box". This was
> a failure that didn't show up until the bearing
> was under heavy loads for an extended period.
> Something that would be pretty hard to duplicate
> unless you're plowing 6 foot deep Sierra Cement
> snow.

Well, maybe not. Even without any load on the wheel during testing, temperature and sonic monitoring of such main shaft bearings can reveal a LOT of interesting information. Assuming that such monitoring was done.

BoilingMan Wrote:
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> it’s failure in the 222 will require more than a simple arm-chair diagnosis/ solution-forensics come into play...

But wait.  Wait.  You don't understand.  This is Trainorders.  That's our specialty!  
 

Touch'e!
SR