Western Railroad Discussion > Oregon Shortlines Endangered?

There is a highly contentious Cap and Trade bill in the democrat controlled Oregon congress . The governor has ordered the state police to round up the state republicans who are on strike as a last ditch effort to stop the bill that has a lot of Oregon businesses fretting about the future. Oregon forest products industries have been the most vocal in opposition to the measure, and most of Oregon's rural economy depends on the forest products industry. Likewise, most of Oregon's shortlines also depend on the forest products industry.
Squeezed by years of increasing state and federal fees and regulations, and low cost competition from other countries, particularly Canada, has squeezed the margins on the business to near unprofitable levels. Many are saying this cap and trade bill will be the final straw. When you think of which branchlines that can survive without forest products (including logs, woodchips, and paper among other things), it gets rather ugly fast. Cutbacks that started in the 70's have already seen plenty of branchlines abandoned or with only a fraction of the traffic they once had. And it won't take a lot to kill many more lines. Already two mills are slated to close in the face of new regulations. Prehaps the old adage applies best, "Get your photos while you still can!"

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/19 07:24 by funnelfan.

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What exactly is being capped? What is being traded with whom for the cap? What free market forces are being regulated?

Ooops, meant to have included this link;

https://katu.com/news/local/paper-mill-workers-concerned-with-long-term-effects-of-cap-and-trade-bill


fbe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What exactly is being capped? What is being traded
> with whom for the cap? What free market forces are
> being regulated?

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

I have a friend that works in the GP tissue mill in Crossett, ARK and he told me just the other
day that they are in the early stages of planning for a big expansion to that mill.  

Maybe this ORE story is tied to that?

Ted, thanks for bringing the Oregon Cap & Trade legislation to our attention.  Bottom line the manufactured goods we enjoy are made with emissions which harm the environment.

City of Prinville Railway 1551, SW1500, was at the Transload and Warehouse Facility in Prineville, Oregon, March 16, 2017.

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cozephyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ted, thanks for bringing the Oregon Cap & Trade
> legislation to our attention.  Bottom line the
> manufactured goods we enjoy are made with
> emissions which harm the environment.

But they have to be produced SOMEWHERE due to public demand...

Allen

Posted from Android

bradleymckay Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cozephyr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ted, thanks for bringing the Oregon Cap & Trade
> > legislation to our attention.  Bottom line the
> > manufactured goods we enjoy are made with
> > emissions which harm the environment.
>
> But they have to be produced SOMEWHERE due to
> public demand...
>
> Allen
>
> Posted from Android
And it does no good as harms the economy very bad for us who cannot afford the extra costs of it.  The emissions of large company's which produce things can go on just by doing something cheaper than fixing them. They have the money to buy offsets to them so what good does it do? It raises our gas prices because if you don't own a car that gets MORE THAN  40mpg here in Oregon you pay the way on roads thru taxes on your driving mileage so the electric cars who already get breaks on there road usage.  Many of us cannot afford to just go out and buy another car that is either. Its more about putting tax money into the demo governors pockets to spend and for nothing that will benefit anyone.  Cap and Trade is a a scam that started way back in Al Gores time when he and his high flying friends used it in there private jet travels among other things.

OH and here in Oregon the public voted it down a few short years ago and now our governor is going to push it thru without a vote just like she has done on other taxes.  Sorry for the rant but was long ago put forth as a way to fix the climate and is very flawed supprised that some dont understand what it truly means. Other countries that are producing most of the problems could care less about any damage they are doing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/19 06:00 by BAB.

BAB Wrote:

> Cap and Trade is a a
> scam that started way back in Al Gores time when
> he and his high flying friends used it in there
> private jet travels among other things.
>
> Other countries that are
> producing most of the problems could care less
> about any damage they are doing.

Your rant would be less annoying if it were fact-based.  The cap-and-trade concept originally came about as the brainchild of a lawyer in the Reagan White House as a means to limit the total emissions of pollutants responsible for acid rain.  The concept set a total limit on emissions, while arguably letting "free-market" forces decide how best to apportion the reductions.  A few environmental groups (most notably the Environmental Defense Fund) were initially skeptical, but came to embrace it as a way to work with, rather than simply against industry in an effort to reduce emissions.  This same lawyer, while working as the White House Counsel for George H W Bush, convinced the president to embrace the idea, and it became a component of the 1990 Clean Air Act.  As a means of reducing acid rain emissions, it has been quite successful.  Current iterations are an attempt to apply these same marketplace ideas to reduce greenhoues gas emmisions.  Of which, BTW, the United Sates produces more than any other country save China, which is making efforts to reduce it's carbon footprint.

Elizabeth



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/19 07:39 by Betsy.

Thanks for the fact checking.  Did you got to primary sources?

Interesting.  They just laid off 555 people in Crossett. 

https://talkbusiness.net/2019/06/georgia-pacific-to-lay-off-655-workers-by-closing-crossett-hope-facilities/

WrongWayMurphy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a friend that works in the GP tissue mill
> in Crossett, ARK and he told me just the other
> day that they are in the early stages of planning
> for a big expansion to that mill.  
>
> Maybe this ORE story is tied to that?

It appears that the Californians who are moving to OR are bringing their politicians along with them. Higher taxes & excessive regulation reminds them of back home.

Desmond Praetzel, “4451 Puff”
 

Unfortunately the opponents to this bill are correct when they claim that the Oregon Legislators represent the techies in Portland and the academics in Corvallis and Eugene and the rest of the state be damned. This very unfortunate because agriculture and forest products are extremely important industries, not just for the state but for the whole country.
Bill Pyper
Salem, Oregon
 

Thanks for the background on Cap and Trade, I had that idea in my head but the labels seem so contradictory. Interesting to see how a political tool was developed and how it's been used through the years.

This has been boiling in Oregon for a while now, we had a post about a Mill reducing operations ( ie Layoff ) and making plans to move out of state recently:

Date: 06/03/19 19:43
New Oregon taxes

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4805033,4805106#msg-4805106

The idea behind referencing it is that it's not an impulse news event, it's been an Oregon discussion for a while. This is how Oregon voted, this is what Oregon gets. That nasty phrase that has become popular on talk shows, Elections have consequences.

I'm noticing this morning's headlines are about Trump and not about the local politics, the State Republicans Legislators made use of an obscure tactic to not attend yesterday's session, preventing the required minimum Legislators to be in attendance for a vote. According to the cook-book the next move will be to remove the minimum attendee requirement.

+ Also add that a lot of people did move to Oregon, there was a great building and job boom, it's looks like a great location for many reasons. The people that I personally know that spent working career time in California and then moved back 'home' to Oregon and to be closer to relatives, most to retire. Also know of people that moved from California to Washington, Idaho, Florida, Mississippi, Oklahoma and even New Zealand but specifically for quality of life or price of housing. Also know of a number of Techie types schooled in Oregon and working in Silicon Valley.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/19 10:21 by TCnR.

wjpyper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately the opponents to this bill are
> correct when they claim that the Oregon
> Legislators represent the techies in Portland and
> the academics in Corvallis and Eugene and the rest
> of the state be damned. This very unfortunate
> because agriculture and forest products are
> extremely important industries, not just for the
> state but for the whole country.
> Bill Pyper
> Salem, Oregon
Bill,

As I've publically stated of social media platforms... I live in OREGON not PORTLAND. I personally live in a very rural portion of Oregon that would be disportionately impacted by this bill. We already had one gas station stop carrying Diesel, which means when my tank on the farm is empty, we have to drive 35 miles to the next closest one. I hope our courageous lawmakers find shelter in Idaho, which will not allow the oregon storm troopers to pass through.. I'll also remind long-time oregon residents that Katie pulled this same stunt in 2001.

Regards.

Dave

I was born and have lived and been in business in Oregon for most of my seventy-five years and our current business and political climate is the worst I have seen. This so-called "governor" Kate Brown is a disgrace. She was never "elected" governor but only "re-elected" after the then Secretary of State Kate Brown replaced the current Governor John Kitzhaber who got in a bit of trouble from helping his then girlfriend get state conttracts for her consulting firm. It was simply easier to re-elect the incumbent than think outside the box and as a result we all suffer.

Oregon Pacific depends on the forest products industry for around one-third of its revenue off our Molalla operation and while not worried at the present time...we are genuinely concerned that Brown's tactics to require our State Police to chase down our legislators lioke a bunch of criminals is insane and could spread out of control fast. She needs to be stopped before her cancer spreads to ODOT Rail and the rest of the bureaucrats we have to deal with.

Dick Samuels
Oregon Pacific Railroad
 

EMDSW-1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was born and have lived and been in business in
> Oregon for most of my seventy-five years and our
> current business and political climate is the
> worst I have seen. This so-called "governor" Kate
> Brown is a disgrace. She was never "elected"
> governor but only "re-elected" after the then
> Secretary of State Kate Brown replaced the current
> Governor John Kitzhaber who got in a bit of
> trouble from helping his then girlfriend get state
> conttracts for her consulting firm. It was simply
> easier to re-elect the incumbent than think
> outside the box and as a result we all suffer.
>
> Oregon Pacific depends on the forest products
> industry for around one-third of its revenue off
> our Molalla operation and while not worried at the
> present time...we are genuinely concerned that
> Brown's tactics to require our State Police to
> chase down our legislators lioke a bunch of
> criminals is insane and could spread out of
> control fast. She needs to be stopped before her
> cancer spreads to ODOT Rail and the rest of the
> bureaucrats we have to deal with.
>
> Dick Samuels
> Oregon Pacific Railroad
>  

Dick,

Part of me wonders if all the farms in Oregon should shutter operations for 1 year.... starve the state of tax income, and quite possibly literally starve the cities. Maybe then they would realize where their food and raw materials actually comes from. It doesn't magically show up at Market of Choice and Home Depot... it sounds extreme, but this proposed legislation will literally stave families who won't have income for food and shelter when their business fail.

Regards,

Dave



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/19 10:52 by dbesade.

Why don't start a recall petition?

cozephyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ted, thanks for bringing the Oregon Cap & Trade
> legislation to our attention.  Bottom line the
> manufactured goods we enjoy are made with
> emissions which harm the environment.

windmills and solar panels are also manufactured, installed, and maintained with emissions which harm the environment......

> City of Prinville Railway 1551, SW1500, was at the
> Transload and Warehouse Facility in Prineville,
> Oregon, March 16, 2017.

66

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/oregon-senators-face-dollar500-fines-for-fleeing-threaten-to-sue/ar-AADd3Pw?li=BBnbcA1

This is today's fuller news story. Dems walked away first some years ago. Repubs walked out later but promised not to do it again when they came back. The caps will not take effect for 15-35 years. That might be enough time for someone to design a workable solution or find something from across the worlds available now. They might also find nothing is going to work and back off on the law. That assumes both sides want to play together.

cozephyr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ted, thanks for bringing the Oregon Cap & Trade
> legislation to our attention.  Bottom line the
> manufactured goods we enjoy are made with
> emissions which harm the environment.

It's much more than our manufactured goods.  It's our food, shelter, and clothing.

The great line that I read was "We can all starve to death while breathing perfectly clean air."  If a caveman built a fire to cook food he was polluting the air.  I do not want to live like a caveman.  I like (and need) my air conditioning, medical care, automobile, income, etc.  Everything in life is a trade off.  I'll never trade for my life saving AC and my cooked food.  (Air conditioning does keep people alive.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/19 18:49 by Greyhounds.