Western Railroad Discussion > When was the last time that jointed rail was installed?

The UP main line between Poplar Bluff and St. Louis, Missouri is 115 Lb jointed rail installed in 1960. It remains to this day. Were there any other lines built after this?

Is stick rail the same thing as jointed rail?

Is welded rail cheaper to install than jointed rail?

When was the Park Avenue Tunnel in Manhattan upgraded to welded rail?

When did Amtrak begin purchasing parts of the NEC from Penn Central?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/20 00:45 by Sp1110.

They built a new line to reroute a railroad around Fairchild Air Force Base in 2008 that used 115# jointed rail on concrete ties. It was a little over 3 miles in length.

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

Yeah, depends on what you mean by "rail line".
You might say no "rail lines" were built with
jointed rail in the US after 1960. Or even before...
was any all-new main line built with jointed rail
after the 1930s?

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, depends on what you mean by "rail line".
> You might say no "rail lines" were built with
> jointed rail in the US after 1960. Or even
> before...
> was any all-new main line built with jointed rail
> after the 1930s?

I am not talking about all-new rail lines. I am talking about rail replacement projects.

Posted from iPhone

Wasn't the Rio Grande narrow gauge line relocation built with jointed rail after 1960? That was many
miles long. That was on the main line to Durango. 

Out

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> The UP main line between Poplar Bluff and St.
> Louis, Missouri is 115 Lb jointed rail installed
> in 1960. It remains to this day. Were there any
> other lines built after this?
>

Actually a majority of the DeSoto sub is welded rail, and the jointed rail that remains was installed throughout the 1950s and 1960s.   One long segment was a new line built as a line change in 1949 to eliminate grades an curves around Gads Hill; much of that jointed rail is still in place.

> Is stick rail the same thing as jointed rail?
>
Yes

> Is welded rail cheaper to install than jointed
> rail?
>

As for installation costs, it probably does not make a lot of difference.  It is certainly less expensive to maintain over the long run on a line that hauls any significant amount of tonnage or speed.  Although there were a number of experimental installations earlier, welded rail generally became widely accepted as the rail of choice for replacements and new installations starting in the 1960s; as always with new technology, some railroads were quicker to adopt than others.

> When was the Park Avenue Tunnel in Manhattan
> upgraded to welded rail?
>
> When did Amtrak begin purchasing parts of the NEC
> from Penn Central?

Can't help you with those questions, I only know that Amtrak completed possession of its portion of the NEC in 1976, the same year Conrail took over from PC.

Was the original NS Lee Creek line built with jointed or welded rail (1965)?

The original poster seems to imply that the DeSoto Subdivision was constructed in 1960.  It fact, most of it was constructed around 100 years before that, between 1858 and 1873.  Of one special note, the line was built to 5 foot guage and was then converted to standard guage on June 28,1879.

If you're asking when did railroads quit
replacing jointed rail with new jointed rail --
first guess is, they haven't quit. But if you're
just talking about main lines... in the 1970s
SP used jointed rail on the sharper curves
on Donner and Tehachapi; dunno how
long they continued to do that. I watched
BN install a piece of new jointed rail on
Crawford Hill in 1979.

BNSF6400 Wrote:
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> The original poster seems to imply that the DeSoto
> Subdivision was constructed in 1960.

No, he clearly used the word installed in reference to the rail. 

To the rail change comments, the narrow gauge line change at Navajo Dam was all new ROW and all new jointed rail, not some changeout.
This line was actually BUILT after 1960.

Out 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/20 19:16 by callum_out.

timz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you're asking when did railroads quit
> replacing jointed rail with new jointed rail --
> first guess is, they haven't quit. But if you're
> just talking about main lines... in the 1970s
> SP used jointed rail on the sharper curves
> on Donner and Tehachapi; dunno how
> long they continued to do that. I watched
> BN install a piece of new jointed rail on
> Crawford Hill in 1979.

Is there any advantage to using jointed rail?

Posted from iPhone

Yes, it makes that nice clickety-clack sound heard in all commercials.

Out 

Stick rail is cheaper to install and gaps are left to help with expansion of the rail during hot weather.
CWR is cheaper to maintain and gives a smoother ride at higher speeds.

justalurker66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stick rail is cheaper to install and gaps are left
> to help with expansion of the rail during hot
> weather.
> CWR is cheaper to maintain and gives a smoother
> ride at higher speeds.

OK, then why does BNSF have a 50MPH speed restriction for any and all trains on jointed rail?  Even when they installed the new street crossings on our town, until the thermite welders showed up the next day, all trains, including METRA, were restricted to 50 MPH over those joints in that track.

Concerning that "smoother ride at higher speeds" for CWR, I distinctly remember the very smooth ride on the PRR Northeast Corridor, with all jointed rail, back in the 1940s and 1950s, at 100+ MPH.

A lot depends on car weight, I can remember as a kid how smooth the Santa Fe transcon seemed to be and then many years later
riding to San Diego at 70 plus South of San Clemente trying not to hit the ceiling with the coffee. Those Amfleet cars weren't the best
on jointed rail.

Out 

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> justalurker66 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Stick rail is cheaper to install and gaps are
> left
> > to help with expansion of the rail during hot
> > weather.
> > CWR is cheaper to maintain and gives a smoother
> > ride at higher speeds.
>
> OK, then why does BNSF have a 50MPH speed
> restriction for any and all trains on jointed
> rail?  Even when they installed the new street
> crossings on our town, until the thermite welders
> showed up the next day, all trains, including
> METRA, were restricted to 50 MPH over those joints
> in that track.
>
> Concerning that "smoother ride at higher speeds"
> for CWR, I distinctly remember the very smooth
> ride on the PRR Northeast Corridor, with all
> jointed rail, back in the 1940s and 1950s, at 100+
> MPH.

Aren't they still running 79MPH on jointed rail in Kansas?

And in New Mexico.

Out 

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A lot depends on car weight, I can remember as a
> kid how smooth the Santa Fe transcon seemed to be
> and then many years later
> riding to San Diego at 70 plus South of San
> Clemente trying not to hit the ceiling with the
> coffee. Those Amfleet cars weren't the best
> on jointed rail.
>
> Out 
When did Coaster upgrade the line south of San Clemente to welded rail?

Posted from iPhone