Western Railroad Discussion > UP Portland Subdivision Train Symbol Request

Hi everyone, 

With PSR changing operations all over the system, I'm curious what train symbols are running on UP's Portland Sub in the Gorge. I've done 24 hour counts on the line before while staying at the Best Western Hotel in Cascade Locks, and it was at 22-23 trains per day as of 2017/2018. This March I counted 19 trains in 24 hours, but I may have missed some. 

On a side note, whats the current situation at Hinkle? Is it still being used solely for flat switching and locals (no hump)? Do any trains originate/end there or is it just a block swapping location?

Thanks in advance for your answers! 

The following are all the scheduled road trains on the Portland Sub:

•intermodal 
IG4SE Global 4, IL - Seattle IM, WA daily
ITAG4 Tacoma Export, WA - Global 4, IL daily
ZBRG1 Brooklyn, OR - Global 1, IL Tu, We
ZBRG1B Brooklyn, OR - Global 1, IL Th-Sa
ZBRNP Brooklyn, OR - North Platte, NE Su, Mo
ZBRWG Brooklyn, OR - West Chicago, IL Tu-Sa
ZG1BR Global 1, IL - Brooklyn, OR Mo-We
ZG1BRB Global 1, IL - Brooklyn, OR Th-Su

•manifest
MNPPD North Platte, NE - Portland Albina, OR daily
MOGPD Ogden, UT - Portland Albina, OR daily
MPDNPB Portland Albina, OR - North Platte, NE daily
MPDOG Portland Albina, OR - Ogden, UT daily

•trash
OGLPS Gilliam, OR - Blakeslee Jct, WA Fr
OGLSE Gilliam, OR - Seattle, WA Mo-Th, Sa
OPSGL Blakeslee Jct, WA - Gilliam OR Tu
OSEGL Seattle, WA - Gilliam, OR Su-Tu, Th, Fr

In addition, there are usually 3-4 various unit trains or extras a day, mostly potash and grain.

As for Hinkle, there are still two road trains that originate / terminate there.  Plus, there’s a few locals based there.  Hinkle still blocks swaps through trains.

MHKSK Hinkle, OR - Spokane, WA daily
MSKHK Spokane, WA - Hinkle, OR daily
LID31 Hinkle, OR - Boardman, OR turn Mo-Fr
LID48 Hinkle, OR - Wallula, WA turn Mo-Sa
LIG42 Hinkle, OR works Stanfield, Pendair, Reith, Pendleton, Pilot Rock, Meacham Mo, Th

Andrew

florida581 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The following are all the scheduled road trains on
> the Portland Sub:
>
> •intermodal 
> IG4SE Global 4, IL - Seattle IM, WA daily
> ITAG4 Tacoma Export, WA - Global 4, IL daily
> ZBRG1 Brooklyn, OR - Global 1, IL Tu, We
> ZBRG1B Brooklyn, OR - Global 1, IL Th-Sa
> ZBRNP Brooklyn, OR - North Platte, NE Su, Mo
> ZBRWG Brooklyn, OR - West Chicago, IL Tu-Sa
> ZG1BR Global 1, IL - Brooklyn, OR Mo-We
> ZG1BRB Global 1, IL - Brooklyn, OR Th-Su
>
> •manifest
> MNPPD North Platte, NE - Portland Albina, OR
> daily
> MOGPD Ogden, UT - Portland Albina, OR daily
> MPDNPB Portland Albina, OR - North Platte, NE
> daily
> MPDOG Portland Albina, OR - Ogden, UT daily
>
> •trash
> OGLPS Gilliam, OR - Blakeslee Jct, WA Fr
> OGLSE Gilliam, OR - Seattle, WA Mo-Th, Sa
> OPSGL Blakeslee Jct, WA - Gilliam OR Tu
> OSEGL Seattle, WA - Gilliam, OR Su-Tu, Th, Fr
>
> In addition, there are usually 3-4 various unit
> trains or extras a day, mostly potash and grain.
>
> As for Hinkle, there are still two road trains
> that originate / terminate there.  Plus,
> there’s a few locals based there.  Hinkle still
> blocks swaps through trains.
>
> MHKSK Hinkle, OR - Spokane, WA daily
> MSKHK Spokane, WA - Hinkle, OR daily
> LID31 Hinkle, OR - Boardman, OR turn Mo-Fr
> LID48 Hinkle, OR - Wallula, WA turn Mo-Sa
> LIG42 Hinkle, OR works Stanfield, Pendair, Reith,
> Pendleton, Pilot Rock, Meacham Mo, Th
>
> Andrew

Thanks for the info, I've been wondering what the latest is as well.

So, east of Hinkle, add in the MSKPC/MPCET, and that would sum up the trains over Oregon's Blue Mountains now?  Somebody did a nice article in this month's Railfan magazine of UP in Eastern Oregon, brought back lots of good memories of the UP there before this disasterous PSR thing came about.

Before the pandemic there was another MPDNP, an MNPPT and the ZMNBR as well. Hoping those come back in time... 

wyeth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> florida581 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The following are all the scheduled road trains
> on
> > the Portland Sub:
> >
> > •intermodal 
> > IG4SE Global 4, IL - Seattle IM, WA daily
> > ITAG4 Tacoma Export, WA - Global 4, IL daily
> > ZBRG1 Brooklyn, OR - Global 1, IL Tu, We
> > ZBRG1B Brooklyn, OR - Global 1, IL Th-Sa
> > ZBRNP Brooklyn, OR - North Platte, NE Su, Mo
> > ZBRWG Brooklyn, OR - West Chicago, IL Tu-Sa
> > ZG1BR Global 1, IL - Brooklyn, OR Mo-We
> > ZG1BRB Global 1, IL - Brooklyn, OR Th-Su
> >
> > •manifest
> > MNPPD North Platte, NE - Portland Albina, OR
> > daily
> > MOGPD Ogden, UT - Portland Albina, OR daily
> > MPDNPB Portland Albina, OR - North Platte, NE
> > daily
> > MPDOG Portland Albina, OR - Ogden, UT daily
> >
> > •trash
> > OGLPS Gilliam, OR - Blakeslee Jct, WA Fr
> > OGLSE Gilliam, OR - Seattle, WA Mo-Th, Sa
> > OPSGL Blakeslee Jct, WA - Gilliam OR Tu
> > OSEGL Seattle, WA - Gilliam, OR Su-Tu, Th, Fr
> >
> > In addition, there are usually 3-4 various unit
> > trains or extras a day, mostly potash and
> grain.
> >
> > As for Hinkle, there are still two road trains
> > that originate / terminate there.  Plus,
> > there’s a few locals based there.  Hinkle
> still
> > blocks swaps through trains.
> >
> > MHKSK Hinkle, OR - Spokane, WA daily
> > MSKHK Spokane, WA - Hinkle, OR daily
> > LID31 Hinkle, OR - Boardman, OR turn Mo-Fr
> > LID48 Hinkle, OR - Wallula, WA turn Mo-Sa
> > LIG42 Hinkle, OR works Stanfield, Pendair,
> Reith,
> > Pendleton, Pilot Rock, Meacham Mo, Th
> >
> > Andrew
>
> Thanks for the info, I've been wondering what the
> latest is as well.
>
> So, east of Hinkle, add in the MSKPC/MPCET, and
> that would sum up the trains over Oregon's Blue
> Mountains now?  Somebody did a nice article in
> this month's Railfan magazine of UP in Eastern
> Oregon, brought back lots of good memories of the
> UP there before this disasterous PSR thing came
> about.

FiestaFoamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before the pandemic there was another MPDNP, an
> MNPPT and the ZMNBR as well. Hoping those come
> back in time... 

So I guess I'm behind with UP's current PSR crazy shit.  So now, between the PNW and North Platte, there is but a single MPDNP/MNPPD train each way?  Then wow!  Traffic must have really collapsed on the UP in the PNW! 

Previously, I think the plan was two trains, one was the MNPPT train that handled traffic to Portland's Lake Yard, and then there was the MNPPD, which was essentially a MNPHK-MHKPD train with most of it's train swapped out at Hinkle.

Eastbound, I think it was the MPDNP and MPDNPB, with one of these trains doing the Hinkle car swapping.

Even with Hinkle's hump shut down, that area, which includes south-central Washington, generates a lot of cars, especially perishables (not counting the defunct UP Cold Connect operation).

Thanks everyone! Traffic does seem to have unfortunately dwindled somewhat. 

What about all the double stack traffic from NW Container Services near Barnes Yard? Are those cars just put on manifest trains? 

PNWRailfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What about all the double stack traffic from NW
> Container Services near Barnes Yard? Are those
> cars just put on manifest trains? 

All short-haul marine stacks drayed out of Barnes to destination.

Best regards,

Rob L.

wyeth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Previously, I think the plan was two trains, one
> was the MNPPT train that handled traffic to
> Portland's Lake Yard, and then there was the
> MNPPD, which was essentially a MNPHK-MHKPD train
> with most of it's train swapped out at Hinkle.
>
> Eastbound, I think it was the MPDNP and MPDNPB,
> with one of these trains doing the Hinkle car
> swapping.
>

Yup. I'm not sure exactly when the MPDNP and MNPPT were abolished, but as of early April I was seeing three eastbound mixed freights through the Gorge in the daytime -- I think one PDNP tended to leave Portland in the morning and the PDOG and the other PDNP went in the afternoon. By early June one of them seemed to be missing. 

The trains that are left are often noticeably longer. I suppose with traffic depressed generally it's easier logistically to run monster trains a little more often -- less cross-traffic to meet, so you can get a big train over the road to the next terminal more quickly, don't have to worry quite as much* about figuring out how to time meets with other trains that might also be really big, etc. For instance, a couple of times I've seen the big MNPPD going west out of Hinkle in the evening behind the (also really long now) ZG1BR. There just isn't a lot of eastbound traffic for them to meet anymore, and on a good day that can work out OK. 

*Of course, stuff can always go wrong. A few weeks ago I was on the Empire Builder coming back to Chicago and didn't see any UP trains across the river until Arlington, where what looked like a good-sized (couldn't tell exactly the train length from that distance) MPDNP with five locomotives was sitting -- in two pieces, it looked like the power was pulling forward to set out a bad car or something. The back section of the train was blocking the grade crossing, etc. It was the time of the evening when the WB UPS train (which again can be very long now that it carries the ZMNBR traffic) is often in the picture, and that could have made for an interesting situation; I'm not exactly sure where two big trains like that can meet in the eastern Gorge. Don't really know how that got resolved but I could imagine a situation where the UPS train would be forced to wait far up the line to meet the bulky PDNP at an appropriate siding, etc. 

Unfortunately, even after (if that ever happens) things get back to normal after Covid, UP seems to be loosing a lot of traffic from their PSR scheme.  I doubt the premium shippers, like UPS, that used the former ZKCBR/ZMNBR service, will still be there after UP likely added another day's transit time to their service while this traffic waits for 12 additional hours for the arrival of the ZG1BR at North Platte.

I also have to wonder how the quality performance of the ZG1BR is now days with the additional work, and much longer train (as what you mentioned in your post below).  My bets are that this train is now late a lot...

FiestaFoamer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wyeth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Previously, I think the plan was two trains,
> one
> > was the MNPPT train that handled traffic to
> > Portland's Lake Yard, and then there was the
> > MNPPD, which was essentially a MNPHK-MHKPD
> train
> > with most of it's train swapped out at Hinkle.
> >
> > Eastbound, I think it was the MPDNP and MPDNPB,
> > with one of these trains doing the Hinkle car
> > swapping.
> >
>
> Yup. I'm not sure exactly when the MPDNP and MNPPT
> were abolished, but as of early April I was seeing
> three eastbound mixed freights through the Gorge
> in the daytime -- I think one PDNP tended to leave
> Portland in the morning and the PDOG and the other
> PDNP went in the afternoon. By early June one of
> them seemed to be missing. 
>
> The trains that are left are often noticeably
> longer. I suppose with traffic depressed generally
> it's easier logistically to run monster trains a
> little more often -- less cross-traffic to meet,
> so you can get a big train over the road to the
> next terminal more quickly, don't have to worry
> quite as much* about figuring out how to time
> meets with other trains that might also be really
> big, etc. For instance, a couple of times I've
> seen the big MNPPD going west out of Hinkle in the
> evening behind the (also really long now) ZG1BR.
> There just isn't a lot of eastbound traffic for
> them to meet anymore, and on a good day that can
> work out OK. 
>
> *Of course, stuff can always go wrong. A few weeks
> ago I was on the Empire Builder coming back to
> Chicago and didn't see any UP trains across the
> river until Arlington, where what looked like a
> good-sized (couldn't tell exactly the train length
> from that distance) MPDNP with five locomotives
> was sitting -- in two pieces, it looked like the
> power was pulling forward to set out a bad car or
> something. The back section of the train was
> blocking the grade crossing, etc. It was the time
> of the evening when the WB UPS train (which again
> can be very long now that it carries the ZMNBR
> traffic) is often in the picture, and that could
> have made for an interesting situation; I'm not
> exactly sure where two big trains like that can
> meet in the eastern Gorge. Don't really know how
> that got resolved but I could imagine a situation
> where the UPS train would be forced to wait far up
> the line to meet the bulky PDNP at an appropriate
> siding, etc.