Western Railroad Discussion > the "no cell phone" coverage issue

in many locations i take train videos there NO cell phone coverage.

i have seen some gps devices that allow you to text via satellite so you can always communicate even if there is no cell phone coverage.

has anybody used any of these devices?  if so, any suggestions or tips?

thanks for any info.............

66

Never used one, but have seen one used. Very expensive, and cumbersome to use compared to your cell phone. Google satelite cell phone. Generally, wont work well in a deep canyon, or under heavy tree cover. Works great in the dessert or ocean!

great idea.  i'll check into the satellite phone.

thanks for the suggestion..........

66

I am with a mountain rescue group. Two primary devices: SPOT and the Garmin InReach. The InReach is the most reliable.  Both will give you emergency SOS ability. You will pay a fee if you want the ability to send and recieve txt messages. I would want to send a msg.  Reporting you have your car high centered is alot different than needing help with that compound fracture. You can get two models of InReach at places like REI   
When the unit is turned on it will be sending out a signal and you can allow someone else access to that signal so you can be followed on your trip.  Very nifty
I would not bother with the Sat phone.   Regarding emergency calls: When you call 911 on your cell phone, most call centers can get a rough location to the nearest cell tower. Dont hang up! The call center will be getting info on coordinates for your phone.
Roger

I use the Garmin Inreach Mini also.   it connects via bluetooth to my iphone immediately after i turn it on.  from a work point of view, i wish the public carried these whenever they are enjoying the great outdoors.....sure does safe hours finding folks that are lost or injuried.   

don't know how it worked it must be along the same lines but 3 years ago if flew back from helsinki to new york, i used my cell phone to access internet. i had text service out over the atlantic

The Garmin Inreach mini is not very expensive and worth every penny for peace of mind when outside cell service.  Send a text, the person receiving not only gets the message as text or email and also pin points your location on their topo map.  I think the safety plan is around $15/mo, 10 msg's included.  There are other features useful to some folks.

sphogger

Depends on your intended use case, I would think.  Are you actually anticipating needing to communicate with folks, or is this just in case of emergency?

If you're just looking for the absolute emergency case - as somebody else suggested the InReach or SPOT.  Some of the SPOTs I know can also do non-emergency text messages, but looking at the plan pricing now they're reasonably pricey.  I wouldn't send a lot of them.

When I spent two months poking around backwoods Alaska and the Yukon back in 2015, work decided that I wasn't allowed to be out of range for a week or two at a time.  So they sent a company Iridium phone along, "in case of emergency" - to clarify, that's an emergency on their part, not on mine, but it was nice to have along anyway as if I really got in a bind, I figured I'd just use it and ask forgiveness later.  They did have to use it once to find me when an old system seriously went sideways, and they do work as advertised.  They're also bloody expensive if you're paying the bill.  Phones are ~$800, or $50/wk to rent, and airtime is somewhere between $1.50-$3.00/minute depending on how much you want.

sorry, i should been more clear on my intended usage:

1. for an emergency (injury, vehicle accident, etc.) in "no cell coverage" area.

2. basic communication with my wife (e.t.a. home, approaching train info, etc.) with at least the ability to text, which from what i read here, i can do with the garmin "in reach."

a satellite phone seems to be even better with the voice, text, and gps.

i really do appreciate everybody's info/input on this subject.

thanks again, and be safe...........

66

 

Be prepared to be shocked at the cost of a Sat Phone and the cost of service.

green Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> don't know how it worked it must be along the same
> lines but 3 years ago if flew back from helsinki
> to new york, i used my cell phone to access
> internet. i had text service out over the atlantic

Perhaps using the aircraft's passenger WiFi?  These systems are satellite based.

Dave

The cheaper satellite phones can be useful for emergency use, but they have drawbacks.  Most have a very limited number of minutes before one gets into the $1.00+ minute surcharge.  Also, most of them require you to be outside of a vehicle and standing in one place.  Even then, some of the less expensive phones and plans may take up to 5 minutes to acquire a satellite.  I've used these satellite phones a fair amount--they are handy, but have serious limitations.

Here is another old-fashioned option--one that some railfans already have:  a 2-meter amateur radio (and an amatuer radio license).  Prior to widespread cell coverage, many amateur groups maintained wide-area repeaters (mostly 2-meter VHF or 440 mHz UHF).  A few of these repeaters also include an "autopatch"--a connection to a local phone line.  Amateur radio operators with the correct keypad entries can access the autopatch and at least get access to make a phone call (the "tones" to access the autopatch for "open use" repeaters are widely published in amateur radio circles).  Use can't be for business purposes, but can be used for  brief personal conversations or emergencies when no other conventional telephone service (land line or cellular) is available.  Back in the day, most autopatches wouldn't permit long-distance phone calls.  Just know that the conversation is not confidential (similar to the old railroad PBX systems)--anyone monitoring the repeater can hear the conversation.  Yet today, there are many remote areas without cell service that do have wide-area amateur repeater coverage.    That is my chosen backup when I'm in areas with no cell service as a means for backup communication.  (Yes, I'm a licensed amateur radio operator--for nearly 30 years).  Even without autopatch, there are few amateur repeaters that someone isn't monitoring--also, some law enforcement still monitor some amateur repeaters that are part of emergency nets.  In addition, some repeaters are part of linked networks that can cover regions or whole states.  A handy little book to carry in your "emergency pack" is the ARRL Repeater Directory .  It is available from the ARRL ( http://www.arrl.org ) or from numerous amateur radio retailers.  The book lists pertinent information on just about every amateur repeater in the United States--including autopatch and other features.  For most amateur repeaters with an "open" (publicly available) autopatch, the common method to access the autopatch is " * " DTMF tone ("star-up") to activate it and " # " DTMF tone ("pound-down") to release it.  Guidelines for autopatch use are found here:  http://www.arrl.org/phone-patch-guidelines .  An autopatch should NEVER be used if conventional cell phone service is available and autopatch use is best reserved for emergency situations.  Many amateur radio groups have dropped autopatch features on their repeaters since cellular coverage has expanded, but I do know a few that have purposely maintained autopatch features because so much of their repeater coverage area does NOT have reliable cellular service.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/20 10:02 by WW.

Just for the sake of completeness, if all you want is something to signal for emergency help, a slightly less expensive option (with no monthly fee) is a personal locator beacon.  Basically just screams "Help!" at a sattellite, but cheap with no recurring costs.

Mark

I enjoy being able to send and receive  text messsages outside of coverage.   But I agree, the beacons are great for those looking at cost only.  

WW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The cheaper satellite phones can be useful for
> emergency use, but they have drawbacks.  Most
> have a very limited number of minutes before one
> gets into the $1.00+ minute surcharge.  Also,
> most of them require you to be outside of a
> vehicle and standing in one place.  Even then,
> some of the less expensive phones and plans may
> take up to 5 minutes to acquire a satellite. 
> I've used these satellite phones a fair
> amount--they are handy, but have serious
> limitations.

thank you very much for this info.  i would not be using a satellite phone everyday BUT the possible delay to acquire a satellite is something i need to consider.  that said, it would be useful locally and on trips where there is no cell phone coverage.

> Here is another old-fashioned option--one that
> some railfans already have:  a 2-meter amateur
> radio (and an amatuer radio license).  Prior to
> widespread cell coverage, many amateur groups
> maintained wide-area repeaters (mostly 2-meter VHF
> or 440 mHz UHF).  A few of these repeaters also
> include an "autopatch"--a connection to a local
> phone line.  Amateur radio operators with the
> correct keypad entries can access the autopatch
> and at least get access to make a phone call (the
> "tones" to access the autopatch for "open use"
> repeaters are widely published in amateur radio
> circles).  Use can't be for business purposes,
> but can be used for  brief personal conversations
> or emergencies when no other conventional
> telephone service (land line or cellular) is
> available.  Back in the day, most autopatches
> wouldn't permit long-distance phone calls.  Just
> know that the conversation is not confidential
> (similar to the old railroad PBX systems)--anyone
> monitoring the repeater can hear the
> conversation.  Yet today, there are many remote
> areas without cell service that do have wide-area
> amateur repeater coverage.    That is my chosen
> backup when I'm in areas with no cell service as a
> means for backup communication.  (Yes, I'm a
> licensed amateur radio operator--for nearly 30
> years).  Even without autopatch, there are few
> amateur repeaters that someone isn't
> monitoring--also, some law enforcement still
> monitor some amateur repeaters that are part of
> emergency nets.  In addition, some repeaters are
> part of linked networks that can cover regions or
> whole states.  A handy little book to carry in
> your "emergency pack" is the ARRL Repeater
> Directory .  It is available from the ARRL (
> http://www.arrl.org ) or from numerous amateur
> radio retailers.  The book lists pertinent
> information on just about every amateur repeater
> in the United States--including autopatch and
> other features.  For most amateur repeaters with
> an "open" (publicly available) autopatch, the
> common method to access the autopatch is " * "
> DTMF tone ("star-up") to activate it and " # "
> DTMF tone ("pound-down") to release it. 
> Guidelines for autopatch use are found
> here:  http://www.arrl.org/phone-patch-guideline
> s .  An autopatch should NEVER be used if
> conventional cell phone service is available and
> autopatch use is best reserved for emergency
> situations.  Many amateur radio groups have
> dropped autopatch features on their repeaters
> since cellular coverage has expanded, but I do
> know a few that have purposely maintained
> autopatch features because so much of their
> repeater coverage area does NOT have reliable
> cellular service.

thank you very much for all of this amateur radio info.  i am going to look into this as i find it interesting, especially where i live.

it seems like for me, it will either be the sat phone or garmin inreach.

thanks again for this info...........

66

So long stories short from all the above chatter, look into the Iriudium service. This was initially a Motorola product which has since been sold off.

When they were Motorola and the first spinoff, you could buy a-la-cart service. I mention this as there is still some stale information out there.

Most of the Iridium service is sold thru partners and some services are still a-la-cart - with or without monthly service fees.

With all that said, if you go to the same areas, check other cell providers. I have found that in most remote locations (Rockies, Great Plains and the desert) there is usually one provider (usually a local/regional one) that has some sort of service.

The only place I’ve been to which is almost nill is Yellowstone - even with public safety grade roof antennas. Same antenna vehicle is othernsaid places I’ll get some semblance of service (usually VZW or ATT).

^I have to disagree with some of the above.  I've lived several places where cell service is very spotty and often just not available.  Sparsely populated mountain areas can be especially problematic.  For example, cell service in Colorado's mountain areas is widely available with most any carrier along the I-70 "resort" corridor from Denver to Grand Junction, but along many less populated rural roads and highways in the mountains cell service is spotty at best.  Worse yet, if some general emergency occurs in some of those places, the cellular network is quickly overwhelmed and becomes essentially non-functional.  It's a very sinking feeling when you go to make a 911 call when your phone has 3 bars of signal but the tower is not available due to call congestion.

A note to people using some of the smaller or "discount" cell service providers:  when all is said and done, there are really only two nationwide "backbone" cellular companies--AT&T and Verizon.  Most every other cell service provider relies on one of those two "backbones" for service in rural areas.  Though I'm sure they are loathe to admit it, AT&T and Verizon almost certainly favor their own customers when accessing their towers in rural areas.  For example, in my area, AT&T has the most robust backbone.  I use AT&T and I almost always have service.  Verizon's backbone is not as robust (though improving) and I often have service when Verizon users don't.  It is also pretty easy to tell what "second tier" cell service providers use as their backbone.  Those who use the AT&T backbone have better service in my area.  A couple of hundred miles away from me, Verizon's rural backbone is stronger and AT&T's weaker.  (For the record, a friend of mine contracts to maintain cell towers, and confirms what I just said about my area.)

Since the OP's post was talking about reliable cell service in remote areas, the short answer is that it may not exist, or a user may be using a carrier with a weaker backbone in a rural area.  Satellite phone service is certainly an alternative, but a pretty simple formula is that the more features the satellite service provides similar to a conventional cell phone, the more it will cost.  A fellow that I know travels internationally as part of his work and carries a company-issued satellite phone that essentially does everything that a conventional cell phone does.  The company's cost for that satellite phone is "far over" $1,000 per month, according what this fellow was told.

Finally, some technology talk:  cell phones are essentially full-duplexing  two-way radios.  Your typical cell phone puts out about 0.3 watts of transmit signal.  Compare that to a portable VHF two-way radio--they put out 5 watts; a typical VHF mobile puts out 50 watts of transmit power, some up to 100 watts of transmit power.  So, if you are trying to talk through a distant cell tower in a remote mountainous area, you have pretty limited range to "reach" the tower with a cell phone signal.  When I go to talk through a mountaintop amateur repeater with my 50 watt VHF amateur mobile, I can reach it from up to 100+ miles away if I'm line-of-sight to it.  My often used example of VHF radio range is this one:  When I lived in Wyoming, there was a hill just south of Cheyenne on I-25.  From that point on I-25, on my VHF mobile radio, I could hear the UP Dispatcher talking through the UP Cheyenne Mountain repeater just SW of Colorado Springs, Colorado--170 air miles away!  I could also easily reach amateur repeaters 110 air miles away.  That's one good reason I still have amateur radios in my vehicles that I use in remote areas.  (I also have a separate VHF commercial radio that I use to monitor rail radio traffic.)

thanks for the info ww.  for those curious, i have at&t cell service.

east of kingman, az on rt. 66 from w/of hackberry (antares curve on the railroad) to just w/of pica there is MOSTLY no cell service with a FEW brief and unreliable exceptions.  when i travel to california across the desert, there are also a few places with no cell service.

as much as i cruise on rt. 66, i want reliable communications for 3 reasons:

1. any emergency (vehicle accidents) or roadside assistance (vehicle problems).

2. to advise my wife where i am and when i will be returning.

3. so my wife can tell me about any interesting e/b trains approaching me............

66