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Date: 10/13/20 11:12
Fillmore & Western
Author: callum_out

I noticed in the TRAINS Newline this morning, under the NY Subway violent crime heading, that Ventura County (VCTC) has issued an RFQ
for an operator for the Santa Paula line. The existing agreement expires next year and new one would be 20 year with a 10 year potential cancel
clause. New agreement looks very inclusive, covers full length of the branch and offers an opt out for common carrier service beyond Santa
Paula. Be interesting to see if anyone bids on this.

Out 



Date: 10/13/20 12:06
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: pdt

U'd think F&W would be interested, but the devil is in the details. Who pays for maintenence?  Are there any changes in required liability insurance?  Taxes?

Unfortunately, the F&W   MO, so far, seems to be to sit around and wait for the deadline for proposals to pass, and then end up in court over some aspect of something.  They havent been proactive at all.  Seems like they dont want to put any money into the RR.

Good news is that they did get into the freight car storage business, so they apparently do have some interest in having other streams of revenue besides the TV/movie business.   That pays well, but its not consistant work at all. 



Date: 10/13/20 12:43
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: callum_out

The RFQ lists two options on the freight portion, and one is to maintain the line to UP standards and the other is to not. Not sure what the
UP would make of this but since the common carrier obligation that F&W has is carried on I guess they'd hand the freight over to the new
lessee. Other than that, it is very clear in the RFQ that they expect the line, structures and all to be maintained to a level required by the
service ie passengers and excursions. That would be FRA Class 1 for 15 mph max.  

Out 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/20 12:45 by callum_out.



Date: 10/13/20 14:13
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: BurtNorton

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The RFQ lists two options on the freight portion,
> and one is to maintain the line to UP standards
> and the other is to not. Not sure what the
> UP would make of this but since the common carrier
> obligation that F&W has is carried on I guess
> they'd hand the freight over to the new
> lessee. Other than that, it is very clear in the
> RFQ that they expect the line, structures and all
> to be maintained to a level required by the
> service ie passengers and excursions. That would
> be FRA Class 1 for 15 mph max.  
>
> Out 

I wonder how the track condition is currently?  Is it up to FRA TSS Class 1 track?   I'd hate for the successful operator to be "sold a bill of goods" for track marginally maintained to TSS Class 1 track, only to have the track owner come in a indicate the line was not up to TSS Class 1 standards...then incurring considerable cost to get the track up to true TSS Class 1 standards.   I have seen a number of shortlines and shortline conglomerates get caught in that prediciment. 



Date: 10/13/20 15:25
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: TAW

BurtNorton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I wonder how the track condition is currently? 
> Is it up to FRA TSS Class 1 track?   I'd hate
> for the successful operator to be "sold a bill of
> goods" for track marginally maintained to TSS
> Class 1 track, only to have the track owner come
> in a indicate the line was not up to TSS Class 1
> standards...then incurring considerable cost to
> get the track up to true TSS Class 1 standards. 
>  I have seen a number of shortlines and shortline
> conglomerates get caught in that prediciment. 

Anyone who buys a railroad without expert help in that as well as other areas ain' too bright. There are many engineering company or freelancers, often retired from railroad employment, who will recon and provide a detailed assessment.

TAW



Date: 10/13/20 15:59
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: BurtNorton

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BurtNorton Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I wonder how the track condition is
> currently? 
> > Is it up to FRA TSS Class 1 track?   I'd hate
> > for the successful operator to be "sold a bill
> of
> > goods" for track marginally maintained to TSS
> > Class 1 track, only to have the track owner
> come
> > in a indicate the line was not up to TSS Class
> 1
> > standards...then incurring considerable cost to
> > get the track up to true TSS Class 1
> standards. 
> >  I have seen a number of shortlines and
> shortline
> > conglomerates get caught in that prediciment. 
>
> Anyone who buys a railroad without expert help in
> that as well as other areas ain' too bright. There
> are many engineering company or freelancers, often
> retired from railroad employment, who will recon
> and provide a detailed assessment.
>
> TAW

Agreed...but common sense isn't so common.  Ha! 



Date: 10/13/20 16:06
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: TAW

BurtNorton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Agreed...but common sense isn't so common.  Ha! 

...and continually becoming less so.

TAW



Date: 10/13/20 19:32
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: pdt

What i find interesting is that apparently the UP would retain rights to switch the only industry receiving cars on the line.  This being conveyed from the original agreement between Ventura County and the SP.  I didnt  read thru all the legal stuff far enough to see if there is a time limit on these rights, and if it applies to any and all industries between MP 408 and MP 415. 

Who would want to bid on operating a line, where u dont get the only freight traffic that there is. Or potential freight traffic on 7 miles of the line?
If this is true, I doubt anyone will bid on the line, and F&W will try to re-negotiate their operation for less money, due to Covid.

If VCTC gave the SP freight rights in perpetuity,  they were fools, IMHO.  but who would be surprised.   

 



Date: 10/14/20 06:25
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: RRTom

FRA has a publication called "So you want to buy a railroad".



Date: 10/14/20 09:11
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: Waybiller

Fillmore & Western has a number of experienced short line railroaders working with them.  I have more confidence in them than several "professional" holding companies I could think of.
 



Date: 10/14/20 10:23
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: callum_out

I fyou're running/owning a shortline, your best friends beyond your shippers should be the Chambers of Commerce and
the industrial developers et al. It doesn't help to just sit and wait for new shippers to arrive. 

Out 



Date: 10/14/20 17:30
Re: Fillmore & Western
Author: webmaster

Here are a couple of documents outlining condition:

Track: https://www.goventura.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ATTACHMENT-ITEM10_Final-VCTC-SPBL-Track-Assessment-20200903.pdf
Track report is pretty half assed.  I wonder how much VCTC they paid for this assessment.

Bridge report: https://www.goventura.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/ATTACHMENT-ITEM10_Exhibit-F_Bridge-Inspection-Reports-2019.pdf

 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com



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