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Western Railroad Discussion > Who pays for the damages?


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Date: 10/26/20 16:49
Who pays for the damages?
Author: The-late-EMD

The U.P. 1111 had a major mechanical failure on the NS. So who pays for the repairs since it happens on a foreign road? NS or do they ship it home? Or do they repair it in send uncle Pete the bill?

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/20 16:50 by The-late-EMD.



Date: 10/26/20 17:31
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: radar

NS gets to fix it, repaint it, and keep it. (ducking)



Date: 10/26/20 17:56
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: Josiah

So what failed or happened with UP 1111?



Date: 10/26/20 17:58
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: ALCO630

If it’s movable, send it dead in tow back to UP. If it’s not movable, fix it and bill UP.

Posted from iPhone

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA



Date: 10/26/20 18:25
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: ExSPCondr

Actually its pretty simple.  The railroads track horsepower hours, so when a running unit leaves its home road, the receiving railroad owes the owning railroad 4300 horsepower hours for every hour its offline, and in running order.

When the engine quits, so do the hp hours, if it will still roll, it gets towed to the home road dead in a consist at no charge.  Say it has a traction motor lock up, the two railroads will talk over whether the owners want the handing rairoad to do a complete repair charged to the owner, or put in a dummy axle, (also chargeable, although less) and send the unit home with that motor circuit cut out, and pay to truck the bad motor and wheel set home.
G



Date: 10/26/20 18:51
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: kilroydiver

Thanks for a real, concise answer, much appreciated.

Dave 



Date: 10/26/20 20:04
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: HogheadMike

Why oh why didn't you say that the locomotive was wrecked and totaled out?  I can dream, right?  What a fitting end that would have been for the "Powered by our Furloughs" locomotive, or the "Powered by our share buybacks" locomotive.....both are appropriate.



Date: 10/27/20 03:54
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: dcfbalcoS1

       A mechanical failure would most likely mean it goes to the shop for work by a mechanic. If it was wrecked, we would hope the poster would use that term instead. Depending on which it is, has different results. The railroads already have agreements in place as to what they do with units wrecked or with mechanical issues, correct?



Date: 10/27/20 04:44
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: DJ-12

Railroads exchanging power enter into agreements governing what happens and who is responsible for a whole litany of different scenarios, including damage to the locomotive. Generally, these are reciprocal for each railroad involved.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 10/27/20 05:47
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: Lackawanna484

Class 1 railroad generally keep their run-thru power in pretty good shape, don't they?

Running thousands of units 24 / 365 will produce some road failures and wrecks. Even the best maintained power.

Posted from Android



Date: 10/27/20 06:29
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: toledopatch

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Class 1 railroad generally keep their run-thru
> power in pretty good shape, don't they?
>
> Running thousands of units 24 / 365 will produce
> some road failures and wrecks. Even the best
> maintained power.

Yes and no. In particular, railroads that have ended up in substantial horsepower-hours debt have been known to send the weariest junk on their roster, or even lease old beaters from a third party, to send to the creditor railroad to pay off the deficit.



Date: 10/27/20 07:22
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: FiestaFoamer

I always thought this was what happened in 2014, when UP sent power-short BNSF an army of worn-down Dash 8s which were suddenly everywhere on BNSF for a period of many months. Those came back to UP in early 2015, when traffic fell off, and as best I can tell many never turned another revenue wheel. 

Let's say that's what happened in that case. Would BNSF have any recourse against UP in a situation like that? Could BNSF stipulate that they only wanted half-decent power from UP, or penalize UP if the power they sent had too high a percentage of road failures, etc? Or would BNSF's only recourse be to just wait until there was an HPH imbalance in the other direction and punitively send UP a bunch of their own beaten-down Dash 8s, etc?

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes and no. In particular, railroads that have
> ended up in substantial horsepower-hours debt have
> been known to send the weariest junk on their
> roster, or even lease old beaters from a third
> party, to send to the creditor railroad to pay off
> the deficit.



Date: 10/27/20 07:43
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: ns1000

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Yes and no. In particular, railroads that have
> ended up in substantial horsepower-hours debt have
> been known to send the weariest junk on their
> roster, or even lease old beaters from a third
> party, to send to the creditor railroad to pay off
> the deficit.


^^^^...True statement.

Or send a fleet of the delightful C4s...:</

Posted from Android



Date: 10/27/20 07:53
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: Lackawanna484

Don't railroads have agreements on run thru power intended to avoid the junker issue?

Posted from Android



Date: 10/27/20 08:19
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: jst3751

The-late-EMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The U.P. 1111 had a major mechanical failure on
> the NS. So who pays for the repairs since it
> happens on a foreign road? NS or do they ship it
> home? Or do they repair it in send uncle Pete the
> bill?
>
> Posted from Android

What damages?



Date: 10/27/20 10:33
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: ble692

Shows as having low engine coolant pressure. DIC back to the UP. Case closed.



Date: 10/27/20 10:36
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: PHall

The-late-EMD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The U.P. 1111 had a major mechanical failure on
> the NS. So who pays for the repairs since it
> happens on a foreign road? NS or do they ship it
> home? Or do they repair it in send uncle Pete the
> bill?
>
> Posted from Android

A mechanical failure wouldn't be a "damage". And depending on what has failed, i.e. can it be moved or not, they would contact the owning road and go by their wishes.



Date: 10/27/20 19:00
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: Cole42

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A mechanical failure wouldn't be a "damage". And
> depending on what has failed, i.e. can it be moved
> or not, they would contact the owning road and go
> by their wishes.

To ask a bit farther -  who makes that decision, is it just anyone from mechanical or how high up the chain does it go?



Date: 10/27/20 20:14
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: Mojacket

Or they write a big check...



Date: 10/28/20 07:06
Re: Who pays for the damages?
Author: jello

I've been wondering, is there any particular reason UP 1111 was out east?  It seems like an odd choice for a routine power exchange, but maybe I'm being overly sentimental.



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