Western Railroad Discussion > Small child dies in Fresno train-van collision

The Fresno Bee reports today a small child was killed when a family of four in a mini van was hit by an Amtrak train Tuesday night while waiting in traffic to enter Christmas Tree Lane, a popular local holiday attraction.  Other members of the family were hospitalized.

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/20 11:44 by Copy19.

I saw this on the Fox feed this AM.  
What was interesting were the comments following the article, a lot of comments about never, never stop on a RR track.
One comment said that the train just clipped the van and spun it around, I wonder if the little tyke was in a child seat.
This has to be a close parallel to the UP running through a patriotic parade in West Texas, where people are very distracted by something.
Just plain sad and preventable.

I've been over that crossing hundreds of times and during the Christmas light season I have never NOT seen a Fresno PD officer there to keep traffic off the tracks. Wonder what happened. It's a total zoo there at Christmas and, well, you know...no shortage of morons. Poor kid, victim of his own family's stupidity. Hope the engineer is holding up as well. No matter the circumstances, the death of an innocent child is tragic and hard to cope with even if your involvement is incidental and on the periphery.

A very tragic ending to what should have been a fun family outing. Always be sure there is room for your vehicle on the other side of the tracks before starting across. It’s a law in CA and probably elsewhere.

Posted from iPhone

Was this train one of the San Joaquin's?  I'm really surprised that police presence was not there.

Was it San Joaquin #719?  It didn't show up in Modesto until 3:35 AM (7 hr 35 min late). 

KABC LA CA website headlined: "Child killed in train crash while waiting to enter Fresno's Christmas Tree Lane"

Before I retired I was a law enforcement officer for over 30 years. I have seen more car vs train pedestrian vs train etc. accidents than I care to. Trust me when I say the train except in very rare cases always wins. People anymore just don't "see" trains that's why things like operation lifesaver are so important. I know on here I'm preaching to the choir but spread the word trains didn't go away. They don't stop on a dime. About the only recourse the engineer has is to put it into emergency and say oh s@%€ a little prayer and hope for the best!

It was train 716. 718 and 719 were held in MCD and FNO.

Posted from iPhone

Did the City or parade organizers think to notify the railroad about the parade or whatever it's called.  I'm not sure how much trafis is on that line, but it might be good to make the railroad aware that thetre may be lots of people around the tracks.
First off do not stop on the tracks, unless you have room to cross.  If the gates start coming down, I'm getting out of there even if it involves crashing the gates or the car in front of  me. 
There is a crossing in the Biltmore section of Asheville (NC) that gets backed up because of the traffic that backs up because of the piss poor way the traffic lights are set up. 
We don't have hardly any tyrains anymore so it's not that much of a problem anymore.
People just don't pay attention where they are anymore.
Mike

lapklub Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did the City or parade organizers think to notify
> the railroad about the parade or whatever it's
> called.  I'm not sure how much trafis is on that
> line, but it might be good to make the railroad
> aware that thetre may be lots of people around the
> tracks.

It's not a parade. It's a residential neighborhood that is famous in the area for the homes being elaborately decorated for Christmas. People line up hundreds deep to drive through the neighborhood to see the lights and displays but traffic usually backs up on Shields Ave. where the tracks cross at grade. It's an annual event so Fresno PD knows about it. Those of us who work that route expect it and know we usually need to use the horn a lot more, even in the quiet zones. But normally the PD is there to keep the crossing from being fouled. The Fresno Bee story doesn't say much so maybe they were there, maybe they weren't. Tragic either way.

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lapklub Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Did the City or parade organizers think to
> notify
> > the railroad about the parade or whatever it's
> > called.  I'm not sure how much trafis is on
> that
> > line, but it might be good to make the railroad
> > aware that thetre may be lots of people around
> the
> > tracks.
>
> It's not a parade. It's a residential neighborhood
> that is famous in the area for the homes being
> elaborately decorated for Christmas. People line
> up hundreds deep to drive through the neighborhood
> to see the lights and displays but traffic usually
> backs up on Shields Ave. where the tracks cross at
> grade. It's an annual event so Fresno PD knows
> about it. Those of us who work that route expect
> it and know we usually need to use the horn a lot
> more, even in the quiet zones. But normally the PD
> is there to keep the crossing from being fouled.
> The Fresno Bee story doesn't say much so maybe
> they were there, maybe they weren't. Tragic either
> way.

Seems to me that maybe they could route the traffic the opposite direction so traffic crossing the tracks is on the faster exit end.  Sad that someone must die or get seriously injured before they see the problem needs a fix.

Prayers to family, and especially the crew.

Robert

koloradokid Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> trainjunkie Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > lapklub Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Did the City or parade organizers think to
> > notify
> > > the railroad about the parade or whatever
> it's
> > > called.  I'm not sure how much trafis is on
> > that
> > > line, but it might be good to make the
> railroad
> > > aware that thetre may be lots of people
> around
> > the
> > > tracks.
> >
> > It's not a parade. It's a residential
> neighborhood
> > that is famous in the area for the homes being
> > elaborately decorated for Christmas. People
> line
> > up hundreds deep to drive through the
> neighborhood
> > to see the lights and displays but traffic
> usually
> > backs up on Shields Ave. where the tracks cross
> at
> > grade. It's an annual event so Fresno PD knows
> > about it. Those of us who work that route
> expect
> > it and know we usually need to use the horn a
> lot
> > more, even in the quiet zones. But normally the
> PD
> > is there to keep the crossing from being
> fouled.
> > The Fresno Bee story doesn't say much so maybe
> > they were there, maybe they weren't. Tragic
> either
> > way.
>
> Seems to me that maybe they could route the
> traffic the opposite direction so traffic crossing
> the tracks is on the faster exit end.  Sad that
> someone must die or get seriously injured before
> they see the problem needs a fix.
>
> Prayers to family, and especially the crew.
>
> Robert

Not needed, just post somebody there for traffic control.
Heck, even a Police Explorer scout would probably do if you're that short of cops.

Its sad a child died in this incident, however a police officer can't be at every crossing in every city in every state ensuring drivers follow the law and practice common sense:  it all comes down to personal (individual) accountability,  responsibility,  common sense, and situational awareness.  In lieu of throwing more police resources at the problem,  I'd like to re-frame the problem as one of personal responsibility  (licensed driver following the law).   Blaming the police for this death is misplaced blame.   Victimism destroys your future. 

BurtNorton Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its sad a child died in this incident, however a
> police officer can't be at every crossing in every
> city in every state ensuring drivers follow the
> law and practice common sense:

I don't see a single post in this thread blaming the PD. It's a known annual event that creates a known traffic hazard so the city usually sends a traffic officer out to monitor the crossing. There may or may not have been an officer there, the article doesn't say. Even if there was, the driver still has personal responsibility for his actions. Nobody is claiming otherwise.

Follow up article...

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article247567200.html

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the driver
> still has personal responsibility for his actions.

...and will live with them forever, the ultimate punishment.

TAW

I wanted to add a bit of insight on incidents like these. I have had to investigate around 100 vehicle vs. train crashes or trespasser vs. train in my railroad career,  about 20% fatal.  I feel empathy for any railroader that has been involved in a vehicle vs. train or vehicle vs. trespasser fatality.   When I debrief a crew in such an unfortunate critical incident they often feel guilty, anger, fear, uncertainty, or freeze up completely (or a combo of these).  I work hard to leave them with the following fact about the incident:  "The train was where it was supposed to be...the vehicle or trespasser wasn't".   I have never investigated an incident where a train wasn't where it was supposed to be.. As odd as it sounds, that simple statement "the train was where it was supposed to be...the vehicle or trespasser wasn't" is something I use to start their healing process, as difficult and arduous as it may be.   Now if I could get the media to convey the news correctly:  that, again "the train was where it was supposed to be...the vehicle or trespasser wasn't". But, again, common sense isn't so common. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/20 13:35 by BurtNorton.

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't see a single post in this thread blaming
> the PD.

No, but that will almost certainly show up in a lawsuit because the police failed to protect the driver from personal stupidity. That has become part of the American way of life.

TAW

I saw another story I today's Fresno Bee  (Dec. 3) that a suspect in a double murder was in a high-speed chase and crashed into the side of a train Saturday.  Apparently he shot himself before the crash.  There was no info on the train.
JB - Omaha