Western Railroad Discussion > Outsider's question... What's with railroad management people?

 I work outside the railroad industry, in a profitable and very high-demend trade type job.

I am a 20+ year skilled journeyman type technican at my job. My company 2-3 years ago hired a young (20s-30s year old), former UPRR management guy who ran track gangs, traveled around the system, and "managed" infrestructrue projects. All he talks about is how he managed big projects on the railroad and was a UP career guy.

But then... suddenly at some point he left the railroad and went into my entirely different industry (non-railroad related). He is by no-means my boss but he constantly looks over my back, criticizes the smallest of details, and pops out of nowhere to check on my work. I have no other co-workers in my industry who do that because we all have each other's back and work together to make things right as skilled career tradespeople.

Is this typical of railroad managers?

Sounds typical of former railroad management.

CCDeWeese Wrote:
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> Sounds typical of former railroad management.

Concur.

TAW

I cant tell u about every RR, but a class 1 where i had friends, no one in the rank and filw wanted to move up into management when it was offered, cause it was a desk job (not what they signed up for), and the upper mgmt wanted them to spy and rat on their friends.
So the company hired some really, really green MBA's just out of school for the mgmt positions.  MBA's as a lot , tend to be arrogant and know it alls.  These kids came right out of school and were mgmt, and thought they were hot poop, with the marching orders of top brass.  The rank and file laughed at them behind their backs...but i think the railroad and the union would have been better off with a railroader in those positions.  Of course, there would be a lot of turnover, cause the Union guys wouldnt take any crap from upper mgmt, and would tell them when their ideas were stupid.   Mgmt much perfers "yes" men.

That's what makes the new BNSF CEO totally different from the rest of the industry.

Out 

Some college professor or graduate student could write an interesting book on railroad management culture.  Having spent 40 years in the industry, the short version is beware of generalizations, like most organizations railroads have good managers and bad managers, princes and assholes.  But railroads do have a unique history that probably continues to color the present and future.  Railroads were pretty much the first big corporate organzations dating back into the early 19th century.  In many ways early railroads were patterned after the military, since that was the only real model to go by.  Then regulation had a huge influence on railroad culture.  Because of regulation came the period of multiple bankrupcies, and then the "too big to fail" government bailouts.  In the years after rereg perhaps railroads became a bit more like "normal" businesses.  But all this probably influencied the kind of folks who would seek careers with railroads.  How all this fits together is beyond me, but it would have to make a fascinating story for somebody to write.

JBWX

On the Railroad, you are hired to be fired.

Posted from Android

I was with Amtrak On Board Services (1984-2016).  OBS includes Train Attendants, Service Attendants, Lead Service Attendants, Food Specialists, and Chefs.  Previous to Amtrak these would be Porters, Waiters, Bartenders, Kitchen Help, and Chefs.  In "traditional" railroading, generally speaking, these jobs were black and management was white.  It doesn't take too much imagination to understand the undertones of this relationship.
Today's OBS is far more diverse racially and in gender too-  but the culture of passenger service labor's relationship with management has been somewhat slow in catching up in it's attitudes.  Better, to be sure, but still...
SR

           Actually, these morons are railroad 'mis management'. They work by threats and lies to their employees.

From what I have seen in my line of work and no it was not railroad that is why he is not working for a railroad and soon will be moving on from where you work too.   Those types are always around some supervisors fall in love with there hype that causes problems with others they work with.  Worked as a mechanic all of my life and saw people come and go most went after they ran out of bull shit and couldnt really do there job. Being a mechanic that knows there job can spot these people easy but managers are not around them enough to see there mistakes. But like the author of this thread can spot a fake easy getting his manager to see it is another the RR spoted the problem and got rid of him I am willing to bet or his co workers forced him out.
 

It's always interesting to see what happens to people who move up, and stay in management, versus those who leave.Where do they go, what do they create?

I've observed over the years that people who have confidence in their own skills are always on the lookout to move up, or move out. People who lack confidence in themselves often hide behind criticism of others. Especially true in cultures where the corporate focus is on efficiency, cutting expenses etc rather than growing the business and creating new markets, etc

Railroads are still locked in the 19th century battle between capital and labor, squeezing workers and middle managers with more and better technology. It won't end well.

Hookdragkick Wrote:
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> On the Railroad, you are hired to be fired.
>


Actually, you can say that about several industries.  I worked in one for 36 years and it wasn't a railroad.

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

slamhart Wrote:
He is by no-means
> my boss but he constantly looks over my back,
> criticizes the smallest of details, and pops out
> of nowhere to check on my work. I have no other
> co-workers in my industry who do that because we
> all have each other's back and work together to
> make things right as skilled career tradespeople.

It all depends on if the criticism is valid.  My son is in the electrical trades and he has been on jobs where lots of corners in quality and safety have been cut by those with lots of experience.
One woman in his class became disabled after falling from a ladder last year.  She apparently was seen often standing too high on the ladder.  None of her fellow tradesmen nor the company managers said anything because they wanted to get the work done.

callum_out Wrote:
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> That's what makes the new BNSF CEO totally
> different from the rest of the industry.
>
> Out 

She has not done much if anything different yet at least what the rank and file can see. In fact amazingly we have had more crap policy's shoved down our throats that have further demoralized us.

Well yah because she's been in charge for, well almost three weeks.

Out 

It usually takes a while to get people to recognize the new policies are for real.  I mentioned the newly promoted senior VP at one place where I worked. He was fired for screwing the company over a few hundred dollars on travel.

That got everyone's attention the new leader was for real about enforcing rules.

I recently heard from a professor who had looked into railroading as a result of her academic interests.  She said that learning about railroading is almost like learning a new language. 

Being hired off the street, or out of college to be a trainmaster or dispatcher is quit a leap.                

Twice when I was at Hobart Tower and when we both happened to have the time, I was able to, in a friendly manner, to tell a new trainmaster and a new dispatcher what was going on at the time, and how the rules applied.  They were both nice guys, and appreciated the information. 

However, after dealing with some of the crews, their goodwill might tend to fade away.   Like when I saw a far from friendly obscene lantern signal aimed at a yardmaster for only doing his duty. 

Eugene Crowner 

callum_out Wrote:
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> Well yah because she's been in charge for, well
> almost three weeks.
>
> Out 

You are right, but I'm now on my 15th year are things have gotten steadily worse. If she turns it around ill give her credit but I just don't see it. I think there is a very real disconnect between upper management and the lower ranks. Everyone is demoralized and fatigued to a level I have never seen. In my terminal we hardly ever see the Term Sup or Term Manager, even the Trainmasters are hard to find. when we do see them its never something positive. I hope things do get better, I like doing what I do but it seems management is actively trying to make things worse for us. It used to be when we encountered problems crews would work together to get it fixed and get things moving ASAP. Now we keep our mouths shut and let the dispatcher/Chief dispatcher/Trainmaster come up with some assnine plan. 

This outsider's view of class one railroad management is that it is totally absurd and dysfunctional and I'm barely kidding when I say that I'm shocked the first carload ever gets picked up or delivered.  The focus seems to be on almost everything but what it should be.  After 36 years out in the business world, I am FIRMLY convinced that adversarial management VS rank and file policies do NOTHING to help a company, and putting people who have zero practical knowledge of the job in charge of people who do also is of ZERO benefit to a company.  NOBODY comes out of college fit to lead a janitor's detail, let alone a position of actual responsibility.  Managers need knowledge of what they are managing.  Entry level managers are as utterly useless as first lieutenants.

To Pacific 5th and the BNSF folks on the site, at least Miss Katie has been with BN and BNSF for over thirty years and from
the times I've heard her talk she never seemed to even approach an adverserial relationship with the employee group. 

Out