Western Railroad Discussion > Rail Movement of COVID vaccines

During the recent weather conditions the nation seemed to be in limbo re the movement of vaccines across the country.  Where were the railroads in all this?  Anyone but us old timers ever heard of refrigerated cars and trailers?  And a Little snow never stopped the RR for very long.  The RR used lto have a fairly dependable schedule fro the East to the West coast and inbetween.

"Used to" are the key words in your narrative.  

COVID vaccines are entirely too valuable to be left to the Gods of the Operating Ratio.   

The railroad can certainly get the COVID vaccine to the station. Getting from the station into the arms of people, especially during inclement weather, provides quite a challenge.

How reliable are railroad refrigerated vehicles at keeping minus 4 Fahrenheit temperature?

Until recently, they would have to be reliable at minus 94 Fahrenheit.

Brian

Air Freight can cross the country in five hours. Trains would take five days....

With any vaccine, COVID or otherwise, the transit need is speed and temperature control. Vaccines are very delicate products and often have little tolerance for temp changes enroute, therefore minimizing that enroute time and number of handling events is critical. It’s also not particularly bulky relative to the number of doses, again working in favor of air cargo.

My father was an air freight forwarder for 40+ years. One of their primary accounts is a division of a global pharmaceutical company we’ve all heard of. This division produces an equine vaccine. All of it moves via temperature controlled air freight. Very little truck either.

Posted from iPhone

choodude Wrote:
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> How reliable are railroad refrigerated vehicles at
> keeping minus 4 Fahrenheit temperature?
>
> Until recently, they would have to be reliable at
> minus 94 Fahrenheit.
>
> Brian

The reefers we load are set to -5.   

PHall Wrote:
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> Air Freight can cross the country in five hours.
> Trains would take five days....

And then the car is bad ordered. And then there’s a derailment that stacks up 13 trains waiting for the main to reopen. And then the yard job doesn’t go on-duty for another three hours....

The Pfizer and Moderna RNA-based vaccines must be stored at ultra-cold tempertures long-term, and are shipped in specially insulated containers.  The structure of the vaccine (mRNA contained in a lipid "envelope) will begin to break down at warmer temps, so the more time they are kept at the ultracold temps, the longer they can be stored before their effectiveness degrades.  Today's railroads don't really seem capable, or interested in such time-critical service.  And the shipments aren't really of sufficient bulk that other, far more efficient modes of transport are a problem.
a
Elizabeth



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/21 19:31 by Betsy.

I named my rescue dog Balto, maybe use bydog sled if anyone remembers the story. I'd guess at some point in time Rails carried something of that nature .

Bob

Posted from Android

I might feel safe shipping coal by train, if I already
had a huge stockpile on hand.   Anything else.........?

I would not Trust any Railroad with this Vaccines. NO Way I trust a Railroad.

Really Great Post!!!

Why it won’t work in three words:
Precision
Scheduled
Railroading

Posted from iPhone

When i was a kid, I thought trains were the answer for everything.

MP555 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Air Freight can cross the country in five
> hours.
> > Trains would take five days....
>
> And then the car is bad ordered. And then
> there’s a derailment that stacks up 13 trains
> waiting for the main to reopen. And then the yard
> job doesn’t go on-duty for another three
> hours....

Or the car arrives in the yard on a Friday but the local only works that branch on Tuesday and Thursday.

Posted from iPhone

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

ALCO630 Wrote:
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> Or the car arrives in the yard on a Friday but the
> local only works that branch on Tuesday and
> Thursday.

I forgot about that one!

I know that it's hard to let a good opportunity to whine about modern railroad operations pass, but there is no way RRs are the best way to move freight at -70 C. That kind of temperature is difficult to ensure in a laboratory, let alone a freight car.

Just as I would not want to use freight rail to get to the hospital, I would not want to depend on it to carry my vaccine. That doesn't mean railroad people are greedy, stupid, or lack vision. It means that airplanes and trucks are just better for some things. I don't know why we can't be happy watching huge, slow trains moving impressive loads of masses of freight; that's what they do well. 

subchief Wrote:
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> I don't know why we can't be
> happy watching huge, slow trains moving impressive
> loads of masses of freight; that's what they do
> well. 

Some examples:

1. Bulk freight like cement or sand or lumber or coal or grain or plastic pellets fit this kind of service absolutely.

2. Some chemicals (larger batches) and steel products, and finished vehicles kinda fit this kind of service if they manage to keep their service commitments.  Same for international containers, particularly if there's on dock rail and a decently long haul. None of these require blazing speed, but large schedule variance and alternating between bunching and starvation can provide strong incentives for the shipper to find more reliable truck alternatives.

You'd think paper mill output would fit #1 but for some reason rail is losing market share.

Domestic intermodal or the "cold chain" (regardless of container, trailer or hi cube reefer boxcar) is lots more time sensitive because it's all easily switched to faster door-to-door flexible trucking. So slow, heavy and unreliable are anathema to the shipper. "Truck plus a day or two" (depending on lane length) will suffice for a somewhat lower rate (or unless there's insufficient truck capacity) as long as the schedule is reliable. But sharing the main and terminals with the long slow underpowered freights makes achieving that extremely difficult.


 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/21 22:12 by pbouzide.