Western Railroad Discussion > The 3% grade on the Cajon Pass.

At Silverwood in the Cajon Pass which is just west of Summit, the BNSF has 3 tracks. Track 3 splits from tracks 1 and 2. The photo shows the split which was taken with a telephoto lens and the compression accents the amount of drop into the 3% grade which continues down to Cajon where the tracks all come together again. Track 3 is mostly used for westbound trains however occasionally an eastbound will use it if it's empty or has plenty of power. 

Don Winslow
Glendora, CA
http://www.donwinslow.net/Railroads

---

Amtrak normally uses track 3 both eastbound and westbound. 

Nice! And you weren't just a-woofin' about that drop-off!!!

Lance

santafe199 Wrote:
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> Nice! And you weren't just a-woofin' about that
> drop-off!!!
>
> Lance

A little exaggerated by the telephoto lens but you can actually see the drop off with the naked eye.

A very NICE look at that spot!

Larry

Wow, that really shows the difference in grade.  Not quite Saluda, but I believe 3% is the steepest mainline grade in California.

Where's the giant yellow traffic sign with alternating blinking yellow lights advising steep grade ahead?

UP has a gazillion of such signs around their descending grades.

gonx Wrote:
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> Where's the giant yellow traffic sign with
> alternating blinking yellow lights advising steep
> grade ahead?
>
> UP has a gazillion of such signs around their
> descending grades.

Ah, but this isn't UP. 

Is there anything BNSF can do to smooth out that grade?

They did the most logical and cost effective thing years ago, and double tracked the right of way with the lesser grade

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> Is there anything BNSF can do to smooth out that
> grade?

Yes, dig a 44 mile long tunnel from Victorville to San Bernardino.

Chico43 Wrote:
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>
> Yes, dig a 44 mile long tunnel from Victorville to
> San Bernardino.


Sure, highspeed, 40+ mile long underground, multitrack RR tunnels right through the San Andreas Fault Zone. Friction point between the Pacific and North American tectonic plates... (1906 San Francisco, 1971 San Fernando, 1989 Loma Prieta, 1994 Northridge Quakes???) I know you meant your reply as a joke. More referring to the previous poster.

Heck if there wasn't a 10,000+ mile long continental fault zone to contend with, I bet the RRs wound have found some way decades ago to punch through the San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mtns at a much lower grade and elevation than Cajon Pass (3780'). Save all that time not needing to grind up the steep slopes, and all the trains would be able to make it out of So Cal to Needles, CA in under 12 hours. Barstow wouldn't have ever been built up or be needed as a crew change point.


~ Mr. MRL

If they can smooth out the grade on Tracks 1 & 2, why can’t they fix Track 3? Would it really require a tunnel?

This is main line track.

When was Track 3 upgraded from jointed rail to ribbon rail?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/21 02:01 by Sp1110.

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> If they can smooth out the grade on Tracks 1 & 2,
> why can’t they fix Track 3? Would it really
> require a tunnel?
>

Please explain how exactly they'd 'smooth' out track 3!!

Tracks 1 and 2 weren't 'smoothed out'. They take a totally different (longer) alignment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/21 02:13 by exhaustED.

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> If they can smooth out the grade on Tracks 1 & 2,
> why can’t they fix Track 3? Would it really
> require a tunnel?

There's nothing that needs fixing on Main 3.  It's just a steep grade; some trains can handle it and some can't.  The one's that can't use the other 2 main tracks.  No biggie.

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chico43 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > Yes, dig a 44 mile long tunnel from Victorville
> to
> > San Bernardino.
>
>
> Sure, highspeed, 40+ mile long underground,
> multitrack RR tunnels right through the San
> Andreas Fault Zone. Friction point between the
> Pacific and North American tectonic plates...
> (1906 San Francisco, 1971 San Fernando, 1989 Loma
> Prieta, 1994 Northridge Quakes???) I know you
> meant your reply as a joke. More referring to the
> previous poster.
>
> Heck if there wasn't a 10,000+ mile long
> continental fault zone to contend with, I bet the
> RRs wound have found some way decades ago to punch
> through the San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mtns at
> a much lower grade and elevation than Cajon Pass
> (3780'). Save all that time not needing to grind
> up the steep slopes, and all the trains would be
> able to make it out of So Cal to Needles, CA in
> under 12 hours. Barstow wouldn't have ever been
> built up or be needed as a crew change point.
> ~ Mr. MRL

Some of those long Swiss tunnels probably cross major faults in the Alps.  CA HSR so far has declined to tunnel under the San Andreas and Garlock Faults between Bakersfield and SoCal, choosing the current longer, slower route via Mojave and Palmdale.

mapboy

Sp1110 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If they can smooth out the grade on Tracks 1 & 2,
> why can’t they fix Track 3? Would it really
> require a tunnel?
>
> This is main line track.
>
> When was Track 3 upgraded from jointed rail to
> ribbon rail?


With a minor number of exceptions, trains have been operating down the 3% South Track (No.3) between Summit and Cajon on a daily basis for well over 100 years. There's nothing to fix!!

mapboy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MrMRL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Chico43 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >
> > > Yes, dig a 44 mile long tunnel from
> Victorville
> > to
> > > San Bernardino.
> >
> >
> > Sure, highspeed, 40+ mile long underground,
> > multitrack RR tunnels right through the San
> > Andreas Fault Zone. Friction point between the
> > Pacific and North American tectonic plates...
> > (1906 San Francisco, 1971 San Fernando, 1989
> Loma
> > Prieta, 1994 Northridge Quakes???) I know you
> > meant your reply as a joke. More referring to
> the
> > previous poster.
> >
> > Heck if there wasn't a 10,000+ mile long
> > continental fault zone to contend with, I bet
> the
> > RRs wound have found some way decades ago to
> punch
> > through the San Gabriel and San Bernardino Mtns
> at
> > a much lower grade and elevation than Cajon
> Pass
> > (3780'). Save all that time not needing to
> grind
> > up the steep slopes, and all the trains would
> be
> > able to make it out of So Cal to Needles, CA in
> > under 12 hours. Barstow wouldn't have ever been
> > built up or be needed as a crew change point.
> > ~ Mr. MRL
>
> Some of those long Swiss tunnels probably cross
> major faults in the Alps.  CA HSR so far has
> declined to tunnel under the San Andreas and
> Garlock Faults between Bakersfield and SoCal,
> choosing the current longer, slower route via
> Mojave and Palmdale.
>
> mapboy

Maybe those old civil engineers knew what they were doing.