Western Railroad Discussion > UP's ICTF going 24/7

In the UP news today. Begins 10/17.   Guess it's their response to the port hubbub.  

I am kind of surprised they weren't 24/7 to begin with.  Did SP ever operate it 24/7?

 

Sunday and Monday were the days without 24-hour service. The terminal is/was open both days, though.

https://www.up.com/customers/premium/intmap/losangeles/ictf/index.htm
 

ICTF should have been built at the LA Harbor, not 10 miles north next to SP/UP Dolores Yard. Unload ships directly on to trains.

To clarify, ICTF does not belong to UP. ICTF is operated by UP under lease/contract.

HardYellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ICTF should have been built at the LA Harbor, not
> 10 miles north next to SP/UP Dolores Yard. Unload
> ships directly on to trains.

ICTF was "built" by ICTF-JPA. ON-DOCK facilities are for leased/contracted specific carrier. ICTF is available to any/all companies to utilize. Think of ICTF as a consolidation yard.

The JPA is comprised of representatives from the Port of Los Angeles and the Port of Long Beach. The ICTF is operated by Union Pacific Railroad. Union Pacific pays the JPA a fee for each loaded or revenue empty container handled through the ICTF to repay the bond issued for the construction of the facility.

http://ictf-jpa.org/about.php

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To clarify, ICTF does not belong to UP. ICTF is
> operated by UP under lease/contract.
>
> HardYellow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ICTF should have been built at the LA Harbor,
> not
> > 10 miles north next to SP/UP Dolores Yard.
> Unload
> > ships directly on to trains.
>
> ICTF was "built" by ICTF-JPA. ON-DOCK facilities
> are for leased/contracted specific carrier. ICTF
> is available to any/all companies to utilize.
> Think of ICTF as a consolidation yard.
>
> The JPA is comprised of representatives from the
> Port of Los Angeles and the Port of Long Beach.
> The ICTF is operated by Union Pacific Railroad.
> Union Pacific pays the JPA a fee for each loaded
> or revenue empty container handled through the
> ICTF to repay the bond issued for the construction
> of the facility.
>
> http://ictf-jpa.org/about.php

I have been told that the bonds for ICTF were fully retired some years ago and so I believe such payments are done.

The ICTF handles both international boxes and domestic boxes to selected destinations.

Over time, I expect the domestic-box volume to grow and the marine-box volume to shrink at ICTF. Nearly all marine boxes can be handled on-dock now, in sharp contrast to when it was built. On the other hand, the huge number of domestic box loads generated by transload facilities close to the ICTF mostly have to be driven up to the terminals at Hobart or East LA.

With the shortage of marine boxes right now, the ocean carriers are curtailing sales of IPI in order to get their boxes back sooner, forcing more importers to trans-load.

Best regards,

Rob L.
 

One advantage to operating during non-traditional hours is avoiding the traditional traffic jams on California freeways and surface streets. The pandemic days of no traffic are long gone.

It's not a glanourous 'supply chain' fix but would be a start to alleviating the local trucking problem.

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One advantage to operating during non-traditional
> hours is avoiding the traditional traffic jams on
> California freeways and surface streets. The
> pandemic days of no traffic are long gone.
>
> It's not a glanourous 'supply chain' fix but would
> be a start to alleviating the local trucking
> problem.

About the only time the 710 freeway down by the harbor is not clogged with trucks is about midnight to 4AM.

Folks, I was around when the ICTF was envisioned, designed and nearly placed into operation when I was Asst. Superintendent of the SPRR Los Angeles Division.  Yes, there was a charge for each container to pay back the bonds.  The payments are now complete, but there are current additional charges related to the Alameda Corridor construction and operation.  ICTF was built prior to the vision of the Ports and container ship companies designing and building their own individual on-dock rail facilities.  There was no property/acreage available in the Port of Los Angeles/Long Beach as large as the ICTF acreage in 1983.  The original acreage was owned by the Port of Long Beach and was the site of the old Long Beach drag strip.  Dredging and re-design of Port complexes started after the completion of the ICTF when container ship companies and the Ports realized additional space and through put capability was necessary to handle all of the projected container volume in future decades.  

Pete
Oxnard, California

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> One advantage to operating during non-traditional
> hours is avoiding the traditional traffic jams on
> California freeways and surface streets. The
> pandemic days of no traffic are long gone.
>
> It's not a glanourous 'supply chain' fix but would
> be a start to alleviating the local trucking
> problem.

This was obviously a part of Biden's announcement of "24/7" logistics today, I guess he meant the ports since everything else in transportation is already 24/7.  It remains to be seen whether two extra shifts a day and 3500 more containers a week throughput can be handled with everything else going on nowadays.       

U P ramp in lathrop,ca is also 24/7. They handle domestic cans and UPS traffic plus the tesla loads from nearby Fremont,  ca

Proud Foamer
OAKLEY, CA

UP ramp in Lathrop is privately operated as I remember, or at least switched. 

Out 

Badorder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> U P ramp in lathrop,ca is also 24/7. They handle
> domestic cans and UPS traffic plus the tesla loads
> from nearby Fremont,  ca

I don't believe they handle any Tesla loads. The AMICH that originates in Milpitas, does stop and pick up intermodal cars at Lathrop.

memphisfreight Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TCnR Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > One advantage to operating during
> non-traditional
> > hours is avoiding the traditional traffic jams
> on
> > California freeways and surface streets. The
> > pandemic days of no traffic are long gone.
> >
> > It's not a glanourous 'supply chain' fix but
> would
> > be a start to alleviating the local trucking
> > problem.
>
> This was obviously a part of Biden's announcement
> of "24/7" logistics today, I guess he meant the
> ports since everything else in transportation is
> already 24/7.  It remains to be seen whether two
> extra shifts a day and 3500 more containers a week
> throughput can be handled with everything else
> going on nowadays.       

But if the warehouse and DC destinations for this import cargo aren't also 24/7 things stack up too and that's also a big factor. 

And besides the ports and the IM ramps and on the rail waiting to get into the ramp to unload and at anchor waiting to get into the port, they also stack up on the street and tie up precious chassis there. 

Agree, the problem is bigger than going 24/7 at one location. Almost surprised this was the supposed fix from on high. Hopefully somebody has some sense on diverting ships, or skipping the first port, unloading domestic at a nearby town outside of the congestion or similar tactics.

There's talk of the National Guard helping out, how about some well placed unloading points, or transfer points away from the Ports, unload, restack, or whatever.

There's also who pays for the additional work, is the shipper paying for changes in the original plan, or the Port, or the Warehouse, the Retailer, the consumer?

I think I know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/21 21:00 by TCnR.

Before it was the ICTF, that location used to be Lions Drag Strip.  https://lionsautomobilia.org/galleries/lions-drag-strip/

NWRail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before it was the ICTF, that location used to be
> Lions Drag
> Strip.  https://lionsautomobilia.org/galleries/l
> ions-drag-strip/

Just one of the three dragstrips we lost in SoCall all within a couple of years.
There was also Irwindale (replaced by the Miller Brewery) and OCIR (Orange County International Raceway) replaced by the sprawl that is the Irvine Spectrum.
I think I'd rather have the drag strips back.

Also the Winchester Skeet and trap range was on the sight as well. Oh and also the spot where the Good Year Blimp called home for several yeas. after leaving Torrance. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/21 06:58 by czuleget.

NWRail Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before it was the ICTF, that location used to be
> Lions Drag
> Strip.  https://lionsautomobilia.org/galleries/l
> ions-drag-strip/

Did not know that.   Remember going there a few times as a young teen with my older brother and our neighbor up the street training to be a professional photographer.  Garlits, Muldowney, McEwen, Prudome in that era but I mainly remember how loud it was!      

HardYellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ICTF should have been built at the LA Harbor, not
> 10 miles north next to SP/UP Dolores Yard. Unload
> ships directly on to trains
All the container docks are less than 10 miles from the ICTF. Direct unloading to train would require the correct blocking of containers on the ship to the same destiination that the trains traveled. Unloading on to trucks allows the sorting of the containers on land. Many of the imported containers go to a warehouse where the loads are reloaded to various location in domestic contailers and then sent to be loaded on trains. More important would the allowing the construction of railroad yards near the port for loading containers. BNSF proposed such a facility, but local opposition stopped. Now many container travel almost 20 mile to yard in central LA.

They held a "Last Night" race shortly before closing down and you needed binoculars to
see it, it was packed! 

Out