Western Railroad Discussion > Hi-Viz points system (make it more miserable)

Well if you wanted to make the RR a worse place to be BN just did it. 30 day points system for laying off. In a nutshell...

30 points period. Never more

M-Thur 2 points 
F-Sat 4 points
Sunday 3
High Impact day 7
Miss call/Lay Off on call 15
Call in the day before or after vacation get those points plus 3

Points do not reset monthly, only way to get more is to not lay off for a pay half and then you only get two more. Once you violate the policy you get reset to 15 points. Violate it three times and your fired. Most road boards have no set days off, 24/7 call times, ect.

With this system someone could layoff once each half on a weekday and be fired by next February. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/22 13:03 by Pacific5th.

What ever happened to that 2008 (I think it was) FRA ruling that came down where you could have only so many starts then you had to take 48 or 72 hours off?  I've been gone 11 years so I'm sure much has changed and maybe it was just a CSX thing?  Doesn't a road board with no rest days violate that?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/22 13:13 by RS11.

RS11 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What ever happened to that 2008 (I think it was)
> FRA ruling that came down where you could have
> only so many starts then you had to take 48 or 72
> hours off?  I've been gone 11 years so I'm sure
> much has changed and maybe it was just a CSX
> thing?  Doesn't a road board with no rest days
> violate that?

you can still RISA out for 48 or 72 hours if you hit 6/7 days straight without a DH or over 24 hours between trips. That's assuming you can get 6-7 starts in with no issues. 

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RS11 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What ever happened to that 2008 (I think it
> was)
> > FRA ruling that came down where you could have
> > only so many starts then you had to take 48 or
> 72
> > hours off?  I've been gone 11 years so I'm
> sure
> > much has changed and maybe it was just a CSX
> > thing?  Doesn't a road board with no rest days
> > violate that?
>
> you can still RISA out for 48 or 72 hours if you
> hit 6/7 days straight without a DH or over 24
> hours between trips. That's assuming you can get
> 6-7 starts in with no issues. 

Got it.  Thanks.  Reading that made it all come flooding back to me.  ugh.

Pacific5th Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you can still RISA out for 48 or 72 hours if you
> hit 6/7 days straight without a DH or over 24
> hours between trips. That's assuming you can get
> 6-7 starts in with no issues. 

BNSF just started watching starts carefully and doing whatever they can to reset you before your hit your 6th or 7th start. That includes holding train calls a few minutes past your 24 hours, or deadheading you which doesn't count as a FRA start which resets your starts automatically. I was recently lined up for a stack train that was all ready to go and tied down waiting for a crew. But they held the call an extra 20 minutes just to reset me causing me to lose 4 starts. This is happening more frequently these days.

Now they drop this ridiculous attendance policy on us that nobody can possibly adhere to, especially in terminals with understaffed extra boards where you never lay in at home. And remember, the company, not the unions, control the sizes of most extra boards. They want us to work until we drop.

It's clear that they have declared war on the workforce and I suspect the end-game will be to run off existing employees and new-hire candidates so they can run to congress and cry about not being able to maintain sufficient manpower to run trains with more than one crew member. They want to get rid of conductors something fierce. You watch, it's coming, and this new policy is part of the master plan.

And the unions say they can't do nothing. The unions also said to vote for Biden because he is pro union. Only thing that is pro union anymore is the upper union guys are lining pockets just as fast as politicians 

I feel sorry for you guys that have work under these conditions. They changed marking off rules at my old pike. with all the cameras watching your every move, I'd probably be fired. Makes retirement feel so good!

Larry

So, how does the new system relate to the old system? Are past transgressions wiped clean, or do they somehow carry forward? "asking for a friend" :-)

wpdude Wrote:
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> So, how does the new system relate to the old
> system? Are past transgressions wiped clean, or do
> they somehow carry forward? "asking for a friend"
> :-)

This is what it says in the FAQs. Make of it what you will.

Q. What if I currently have active discipline for attendance?

A. Employees with active discipline for BNSF Attendance Guidelines on February 1, 2022 (the time of the cut-over to Hi-Viz) will be considered to have already received the equivalent discipline step.

UP has been on a points system for at least a year. Awful all around.

uprrman156 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the unions say they can't do nothing. The
> unions also said to vote for Biden because he is
> pro union. Only thing that is pro union anymore is
> the upper union guys are lining pockets just as
> fast as politicians 
  You mean 'anything' maybe? Some examples please. Thank you.

Are there any Pre 1985 Trainman or Engineers left? Yes! Retirement is great. Remember the 7 day layoff on the old SP?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/22 16:14 by HardYellow.

portlander Wrote:
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> UP has been on a points system for at least a
> year. Awful all around.

It’s been around 2 years now. It’s been hell on everything. People are ready to snap… so I’ve been told.

Posted from iPhone

HardYellow Wrote:
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> Are there any Pre 1985 Trainman or Engineers left?
> Yes! Retirement is great. Remember the 7 day
> layoff on the old SP?
 Yes, and on Santa Fe there were ten day layoffs. 

Geez, SP had 6 month layoffs right after training many years ago.

Out 

Drknow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> portlander Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > UP has been on a points system for at least a
> > year. Awful all around.
>
> It’s been around 2 years now. It’s been hell
> on everything. People are ready to snap… so
> I’ve been told.
>
> Posted from iPhone


Geeze, has it been that long already? Time flies when you're hating work life!

trainjunkie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pacific5th Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
>
> It's clear that they have declared war on the
> workforce and I suspect the end-game will be to
> run off existing employees and new-hire candidates
> so they can run to congress and cry about not
> being able to maintain sufficient manpower to run
> trains with more than one crew member. They want
> to get rid of conductors something fierce. You
> watch, it's coming, and this new policy is part of
> the master plan.

You know. This sounds a lot like politics. There are a significant number of people who would call you a conspiracy theorist for thinking there is a master plan at work. These are the same people who believe the media who poo poo's such a notion in politics. Decisions like this at the top levels of organizations and government are not without purpose. I think you are dead on. Unfortunately, many people either don't care about the big picture above their pay grade, or are unable to comprehend it.

Posted from Android

They can't tell you when you're going to work and for how long. They don't know how if they wanted to. They want you to be constantly avialable at a moment's notice to make up for the fact that they can't tell you when you're going to work or for how long. If you screw up, they will cite the number of clock hours you have been "off duty" and claim that you were fully rested for duty, so whatever happened must have been your dereliction. They never include in evidence after an incident what you were told about the next trip when you went off duty, the changes as the information was wrong and you checked in...over and over, and what actually happened.

Then, like punishing a kid for ditching school by throwing the kid out of school, they punish you for laying off by putting you out of service. Are they less short-handed when you are out of service than they are whn you lay off? That's supposed to make sense?

TAW

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They can't tell you when you're going to work and
> for how long. They don't know how if they wanted
> to. They want you to be constantly avialable at a
> moment's notice to make up for the fact that they
> can't tell you when you're going to work or for
> how long. If you screw up, they will cite the
> number of clock hours you have been "off duty" and
> claim that you were fully rested for duty, so
> whatever happened must have been your dereliction.
> They never include in evidence after an incident
> what you were told about the next trip when you
> went off duty, the changes as the information was
> wrong and you checked in...over and over, and what
> actually happened.
>
> Then, like punishing a kid for ditching school by
> throwing the kid out of school, they punish you
> for laying off by putting you out of service. Are
> they less short-handed when you are out of service
> than they are whn you lay off? That's supposed to
> make sense?
>
> TAW

Never mind the Xtra boards that have been chronically short 10 years or so when you lay down to try to sleep for a train that may or may not be 4-6-8-10 hrs out; then the callers office calls you (off the pool, maybe 10 times out) 3 different times for either yard jobs you don’t have to protect or to go dog catch on territory you don’t protect and haven’t been on in 10 years or more. But, get the “right rest” as it says on the posters in the yard office. Then long pool trains get recrewed off your pool and you have had maybe 2 hrs decent sleep and here comes your call, for a train not on the lineup.

And don’t think about laying off too go to the doctor or church or a family/Children function, funeral, wedding. No lie, you get in a car wreck on the way to work and it’s 15 points and half way to permanently dismissed for lay-off after call.

Good times.

Regards.

Posted from iPhone

The extra boards are short because the pool jobs aren't making destination and someone has to catch the train in.
It's a little tough to PSR when you can't make a district and the busiest people are the van drivers. Hell I was listening
to a crew the other night trying to figure who was going to call the van!

Out