Western Railroad Discussion > BNSF "New Math"

Yesterday I was called to assist the crew of the KMANMAN. In BNSF symbols, K is for manned helpers. How excited I was! Would we be rescuing a stalled train? To my disappointment it was just a good ol' dog catch crew. Nevertheless it a nice diversion as we dog catched three trains, one eastbound and two westbound. Why?

The "powers" decided to run another "super" train, BNSF's nomenclature for a double- train, in this case double coal-loads, 15,000+ long with 2x3x1 power. It took 5 hours to set-out bad orders and combine two coal trains. Meanwhile, an international stack train, that had crossed the Dickinson Sub, had to wait to get in the yard, and 3 other crews went dead.

The normal symbol prefix for relief crews is "N". Why the "K"? Someone speculated that it was to "hide" the dog catching - an old BN trick. In summary, BNSF saved one crew start with the super coal train and killed three other crews, as well as delaying a fourth, theoretically higher-priority stack train. The BNSF New Math. 

Hoping you have a great and SAFE day!
Bismarck Bill

Sounds about right.

Double coal train 15,000 feet long !!!  How much did it weigh ???  PSR at it's best......
Doug

hoggerdoug Wrote:
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> Double coal train 15,000 feet long !!!  How much
> did it weigh ???  PSR at it's best......
> Doug

34-36,000t’s. They have tried a few in my area. The first couple took 5 crews to assemble, get them towards Pasco, fix the break in twos at Beatrice and then re-separate them near Pasco cause the sprayer was not programmed to shut down when the middle DP’s went through. They did a few more after that but they stopped shortly after they started. 

37,000+ tons but it's downhill all the way to Lake Superior lol.

BB

“Meet the new math, same as the old math”
(with apologies to Pete Townshend)

Posted from iPhone

Pacific5th Wrote:
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> They have tried a few in my area.
> The first couple took 5 crews to assemble, get
> them towards Pasco, fix the break in twos at
> Beatrice and then re-separate them near Pasco
> cause the sprayer was not programmed to shut down
> when the middle DP’s went through. They did a
> few more after that but they stopped shortly after
> they started. 

Same lack of uncommon sense that had the Powers That Be in Havre reducing trains a couple of cars at a time and trying the air test again at 20 below. I (working Havre-Whitefish) would get one of these pulling at Havre at 4p with its second or third crew while it was still "warm" and at a much lower elevation than it would be in six hours. I'd hack off 20 or so cars at Shelby or Cut Bank, depending upon how cold it was already or would be. If I set them out elsewhere, they would not show in the computer system inventory. By reducing at an open station, the cars would show on the yard report and get moved.

They don't usually learn. In the case you're describing, consider it to be an event like attaining Enlightenment.

TAW

This "math" is NOT limited to BNSF.........I see it daily.

Tripping over dollars to save dimes....!!

Uh, somebody messed up when they designed the Winslow yard cause when a 16K pulls in it fouls both WB mains
until it leaves. Solution is simple though, just use the EB tracks and make the crews dizzy from the crossovers, The
EB traffic, well it'll just have to wait until the 16K leaves, see simple

Out 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/17/22 13:28 by callum_out.

Is anybody, anywhere running these successfully?
Or is this just a theoretical model?
tia.

I got to run the second "test" double-loaded grain train just before I left. Greenlight from Pasco to Vancouver where all hell broke loose after there was the issue of "Where do you want to park this at that has comm for both DP sets"? Got a paid uncut RO and took it up to Main 3 in Longview. They ran it up to Seattle where it was broken up there. 

They occasionally will run a double from Pasco to Roberts Bank now. 

Just OJT for the soon to come fully automated mainline trains. 

   Should be interesting to watch.  Ross Rowland 

co614 Wrote:
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> Just OJT for the soon to come fully automated
> mainline trains. 
>
>    Should be interesting to watch.  Ross
> Rowland 

Here we go again....

I think we ALL KNOW by now the RRs are working HARD towards the goal of the Great Train Layout...??!!!!

Posted from Android

Yah full scale DCC which works great until we have an Open House!!

Out

All it takes is for one run to be a monetary success for the brass to pop the champagne... The other 99% just gets filed under "practice runs", or "you're still not doing it right".

~ Mr. MRL

MrMRL Wrote:
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> All it takes is for one run to be a monetary
> success for the brass to pop the champagne... The
> other 99% just gets filed under "practice runs",
> or "you're still not doing it right".
>
> ~ Mr. MRL

I got told I wasn't running it right by using all 8 notches... so I went back to the recommended "N6" restriction and then the brass couldn't understand why I couldn't do 50mph. 

callum_out Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yah full scale DCC which works great until we have
> an Open House!!
>
> Out

^^^^
This gets five stars!!!

CW

Posted from iPhone

Well Said.

> The first couple took 5 crews to assemble, get
> them towards Pasco, fix the break in twos at
> Beatrice and then re-separate them near Pasco
> cause the sprayer was not programmed to shut down
> when the middle DP’s went through. 

Somebody please explain to this non-rail what the "sprayer" is.

It's the process that keeps the dust down on coal trains. And it sounds like it'd do the same to
your dupes which on UP would constitute a wash job!

Out