Western Railroad Discussion > Replacement Workers (aka Scabs)

Still learning the ropes in regards to railroad unions... which I fully support.  

Have there been any signs of railroads hiring strike-breakers or anything along those lines?

We all know of course how such workers will/should be treated.  

Chuck

Railroaders are "skilled labor". You can't just hire someone right off the street and expect them to be productive right away. They have to be trained first and that training takes time.
And good luck finding any ex-railroaders who would be willing to cross a picket line. They know what the repercussions would be.

PHall Wrote:
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> Railroaders are "skilled labor".


I call the usual six monthe of "training" to be Instant Expert school. It is just slightly above worthless. The operating rules is a book of about 250 pages. The air brake and train handling book is generally over 100 pages. Special Instructions is 50-200 pages depending upon twhich railroad. There is generally a separate safety rules book of over 100 pages and perhaps a separate book of hazardous material rules. Then there is the timetable for the district the strikebrealer will beo working and for train and engine crews, the physical characteristics of the line. The strikebreaker woujld have to pass a test on all of that.

They gonna hire strikebreakers? Only if FRA changes a lot of regulations and Congress changes some laws.

TAW

Even most of the schmucks in management aren't qualified or in possession of 240 or 242 certification these days so they won't be able to run anything. 

PHall Wrote:
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> They know what the repercussions would be.

What would they be?

TractiveEffort Wrote:
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> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They know what the repercussions would be.
>
> What would they be?

Don't ask....

You might be able to find some guys that know how to run a train but who's gonna teach them the territory? As for management they may be able to scrape enough to run a Z or two but no where near enough that have a card to do much more then that. Retieries can't come back out (not that they would want to) because it screws up your RR retirement. 

THE NORFOLK AND WESTERN STRIKE OF 1978 (trb.org)

The 82-day strike against Norfolk and Western Railway in 1978 by the Brotherhood of Railway and Airline Clerks was marked by continued operation of the railroad by its supervisors and union employees who did cross picket lines. This is the story of how 15% of a railroad's normal work force operated up to half of the prestrike freight service, often in the face of legal restraints and sabotage. Appendices contain statistical performance records, a management assessment and accounts of individual experiences during the protracted work stoppage.

As a local chairman, I always told my members that the N&W strike book should be required reading for all rail unionists.  It told about how far a railroad was willing to go, and how proud they were of it.  N&W had it printed in both hardback and softback editions.  

TractiveEffort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE NORFOLK AND WESTERN STRIKE OF 1978 (trb.org)
>
> The 82-day strike against Norfolk and Western
> Railway in 1978 by the Brotherhood of Railway and
> Airline Clerks was marked by continued operation
> of the railroad by its supervisors and union
> employees who did cross picket lines. This is the
> story of how 15% of a railroad's normal work force
> operated up to half of the prestrike freight
> service, often in the face of legal restraints and
> sabotage. Appendices contain statistical
> performance records, a management assessment and
> accounts of individual experiences during the
> protracted work stoppage.

Having been there, I can give you a blow by blow description about how it was done. I can also give you the reasons why the performance cannot be duplicated today.

The N&W 1978 Clerk's Strike was one of the most stupid strikes ever. The non-striking unions respected the picket lines better than the clerks themselves. N&W had a class of clerks who had appointed positions but paid union dues. One of the goals of the Clerk's Union was to open up those jobs to bid and bump. Many clerks holding such positions were easily convinced to cross the lines and work.

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TractiveEffort Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE NORFOLK AND WESTERN STRIKE OF 1978
> (trb.org)
> >
> > The 82-day strike against Norfolk and Western
> > Railway in 1978 by the Brotherhood of Railway
> and
> > Airline Clerks was marked by continued
> operation
> > of the railroad by its supervisors and union
> > employees who did cross picket lines. This is
> the
> > story of how 15% of a railroad's normal work
> force
> > operated up to half of the prestrike freight
> > service, often in the face of legal restraints
> and
> > sabotage. Appendices contain statistical
> > performance records, a management assessment
> and
> > accounts of individual experiences during the
> > protracted work stoppage.
>
> Having been there, I can give you a blow by blow
> description about how it was done. I can also give
> you the reasons why the performance cannot be
> duplicated today.
>
> The N&W 1978 Clerk's Strike was one of the most
> stupid strikes ever. The non-striking unions
> respected the picket lines better than the clerks
> themselves. N&W had a class of clerks who had
> appointed positions but paid union dues. One of
> the goals of the Clerk's Union was to open up
> those jobs to bid and bump. Many clerks holding
> such positions were easily convinced to cross the
> lines and work.

Clerks on CSX can have preferred jobs too, yet they can be subject to seniority, the caveat being the officer in charge of that preferred job has to accept the successful bidder. Usually not a problem....

trainjunkie Wrote:
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> Even most of the schmucks in management aren't
> qualified or in possession of 240 or 242
> certification these days so they won't be able to
> run anything. 

True plus alot of them never saw a train before except at a crossing.

Posted from Android

RailDawg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Still learning the ropes in regards to railroad
> unions... which I fully support.  
>
> Have there been any signs of railroads hiring
> strike-breakers or anything along those lines?
>
> We all know of course how such workers will/should
> be treated.  
>
> Chuck


During a strike with the Pennsylvania RR..the crews were required to wear a hat with a bill to keep the cinders out their eyes. The strike breakers were accosted by the union folks crossing the lines. The scabs had their bills cut off..from that point after the scabs were known as sissorbills.
had an engineer on our division that was oblivious to what was going on in the world. He would go like he'll but didn't know where he was going. Chief crew dispatcher called him up..we were on strike at the time..dead head to Burbank Jct. You are called for the WCOAY. he took the call and forever known as a scab.
Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/22 11:55 by SanJoaquinEngr.

I know in 1978, that the SCL sent officials to the N&W to scab. The local RFE was one. He had knowledge off rulesetc. but not track. I guess he made a familiarization trip and tried.(Nobody ever accused him of knowing how to run a train) to operate a train by himself. I think they had one man crews and a roving person to assist. If I remember that and the FEC convinced the RRs that a caboose was not needed. I also think that the lending of officials from other RRs is what caused it to go national. Somebody correct me if my memory is wrong.
Thanks.

Sam

Trainhand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I know in 1978, that the SCL sent officials to the
> N&W to scab. The local RFE was one. He had
> knowledge off rulesetc. but not track. I guess he
> made a familiarization trip and tried.(Nobody ever
> accused him of knowing how to run a train) to
> operate a train by himself. I think they had one
> man crews and a roving person to assist. If I
> remember that and the FEC convinced the RRs that a
> caboose was not needed. I also think that the
> lending of officials from other RRs is what caused
> it to go national. Somebody correct me if my
> memory is wrong.
> Thanks.
>
> Sam

Thanks for that info, Sam.

The railroads had a strike mutual aid pact so the payments which N&W received were the grounds for going nationwide. The evidence of aid in other ways may have helped with the case.

There may have been isolated cases like the SCL RFE, but by and large the labor came from existing N&W employees. The norm was two man crews, sometimes three on locals and yard jobs.

Cabooses were parked from almost the start including in states like Virginia which required them. Comparisons with the FEC are interesting. What happened with FEC  was considered a special case, not applicable to major railroads. The N&W strike disabused that notion and probably advanced for the industry work rule changes on crew size and district lengths by years.
 

TractiveEffort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They know what the repercussions would be.
>
> What would they be?


Just as an example from where I worked at AT&T. People who crossed the picket line were "marked", even 15 and 20 years later.
Nobody would do them any favors like swap shifts or on-call periods. Nobody would respond if they asked for help on a job.
Basically a cold shoulder that would never go away. Yes the Union Stewards would still represent them if they had a grievance, but they only did the bare minimum required by the contract.

I joined the railway here in the UK in 1977. My first job was working on passenger trains as the Conductor, there were times where both the Engineer and myself were in the crew room drinking tea between jobs (Remember that the UK railways back then & up to recent times ran on tea !😂) There'd be an older engineer sitting on his own with no one talking too him, when I asked my Engineer what was going on I was told he worked in the 1955 Engineer's strike and since then he was subject to the cold shoulder !!!

Posted from Android

TractiveEffort Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE NORFOLK AND WESTERN STRIKE OF 1978 (trb.org)
>
> The 82-day strike against Norfolk and Western
> Railway in 1978 by the Brotherhood of Railway and
> Airline Clerks was marked by continued operation
> of the railroad by its supervisors and union
> employees who did cross picket lines. This is the
> story of how 15% of a railroad's normal work force
> operated up to half of the prestrike freight
> service, often in the face of legal restraints and
> sabotage. Appendices contain statistical
> performance records, a management assessment and
> accounts of individual experiences during the
> protracted work stoppage.

I knew a man, now deceased, who was an officer on the Chicago and Western Indiana RR, which was partially owned by N&W.  He was loaned to the N&W during the strike and worked as an engineer.  He told me once he was nearing the 12 hour limit when he received a radio call to "engineer Nosredna."  At first, he didn't know who they were calling.  Then he figured it out.  His name was Anderson and now on paper, engineer Nosredna had another 12 hours to go.

Back in the late 70s or early 80s, there was the threat of a railroad strike.  I had a friend that worked in the real estate department for CSX.  A week or two before the strike date, his office was called out to the yard for training on how to run a train.  He was trained to work in the yard.  No telling how many accidents they would have had if they had actually been required to run a train

John

When the scabs start taking seniority away things can get kinda ugly. 

Not sure if the railroads or the unions control the seniority lists. 

Chuck