Western Railroad Discussion > Rail agreement, why are you guys still upset?

Trying to understand what the agreement turned out to be, haven't found a good article... is High Vis adjusted?

Why are most of you still against it?

Thx.

Posted from Android

It's been explained countless times here on Trainorders that the new and improved agreement did nothing to address the quality of life issues.

The raise doesn’t keep up with inflation…and Hi-Viz is still being implemented.

One extra personal leave day allotted annually, garbage!

3 doctor’s visits allowed annually, but can only be scheduled on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday…30 days in advance…give me a break.

Plus lots of other stuff…

Does anybody know anyone that is going to cast a “yes”? I sure don’t.

Posted from iPhone

            I had a far better deal working in the oilfield on call 24 hours a day and working 24 hours a day for many days in a row. But if I needed off for something, it happened, no problem. I had days off scheduled, worked a lot of them but that was because I agreed to. Lots of good things about it but now days that job has gone to hell too. Glad I am out of it.
             If I was in the railroad operation anywhere, I would vote against it too.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>             . Lots of good things
> about it but now days that job has gone to hell
> too. 

That probably applies to most jobs, if not all of them. Think people quitting or not hiring out on jobs that used to be coveted might be a clue?

TAW

Besides the raise and health insurance parts...

That one extra PLD may only be good for next year. Still waiting to hear officially on that. Not sure from what I've read. But the point is PLD's are great until the carrier refuses to allow you to take in on the day you want because 10 out of 170 guys already have that day off.

No paid sick time, but we do get 3 events a year we can use 30 days in adavance on a Tue-Thur only. So still punished for actually being sick any other time.

Plus biggest for me is days off, self releving pool and pool miles would have to be negotiated and if no negotiation is reached then go to arbritration after that. I don't know how many of you have ever been around a RR negotiation but for the most part the company puts down what they want, the union says they want to change something and the company then says NO, take it or leave it. They don't negotiate.

The days off scare me. On the big orange western RR they have implemented 4/2, 5/2, or 6/3 time off in some areas. 4 starts and you can take 48 hours off. Problem is you still never know when you may get those 48 hours off because you do not know when you may accumulate those 4 days. On top of that they consider those rest agreements "assigned" service which is a much higher points value for Hi-Viz, so if you are really sick, or you do have to take a day off for a appointment because it did not line up on your 48 off you get hit for nearly a 1/4 of your points which takes 28 days to make up.

Self releving pools scares the crap out of me. We just won a fight against this and I don't want these back. You constantly move up the pool as guys lay off so you almost never go to work even close to your projected time. I have been moved up 12-16 hours many times within a few hours.

So that's why I'm not happy, in fact I have not heard a single guy at my terminal or the three I work into that will vote for this. To many loop holes, 

goduckies Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trying to understand what the agreement turned out
> to be, haven't found a good article... is High Vis
> adjusted?
>
> Why are most of you still against it?
>
> Thx.
>
> Posted from Android
Wow so guess that you dont work for any RR then as time off deal is a huge and always has been a sticking point since it was put into place. The union workers who are for it must not have the same problems as engine crews do then.
 

From what I've read on this issue over the past few months,  union leaders seem to place staying in office above the welfare of those they represent.   Reminds me of another crew working out of DC.

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I've read on this issue over the past
> few months,  union leaders seem to place staying
> in office above the welfare of those they
> represent.   Reminds me of another crew working
> out of DC.

no matter how they spin this I doubt they remain in power after this. People are beyond pissed now and feel betrayed. Our best shot at a good agreement was two weeks ago when we had public and media support even from right wing outfits. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/22 08:10 by Pacific5th.

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I've read on this issue over the past
> few months,  union leaders seem to place staying
> in office above the welfare of those they
> represent.   Reminds me of another crew working
> out of DC.

Spot on!!

Nick Tharalson,
Marion, IA

Craft unions, by their nature, have varying interests. Which management can play off against each other.

Mass unions, like the dock workers, auto workers, service employees, often settle issues themselves.

Posted from Android

From what I have heard stepped up pools on vacancies and no bump board only electronic standing bids.These are all bad ideas.I have worked under both and if you think unpredictable work calling is bad now just wait.Oh,and combining boards ie yard and road.None of this favors the employee.Bill Webb

masterphots Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I've read on this issue over the past
> few months,  union leaders seem to place staying
> in office above the welfare of those they
> represent.   Reminds me of another crew working
> out of DC.

You mean EVERY crew that's ever worked in DC...

JG

jgilmore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> masterphots Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > From what I've read on this issue over the past
> > few months,  union leaders seem to place
> staying
> > in office above the welfare of those they
> > represent.   Reminds me of another crew
> working
> > out of DC.
>
> You mean EVERY crew that's ever worked in DC...
>
> JG

Yep, sounds like  EVERY MEMBER OF CONGRESS no matter what party they're in.

I'm going to stir the political pot, anything left open for arbitration will just be dragged out until an administration comes along that will appoint an arbitrator that will rule in the carrier's favor. As previously said we don't want all the issues hanging over our heads.

The class one I work for has self maintaining pools, you rails that don't have them, trust me you don't want them, just a reason to cut the extra boards,but then they always have to tap into the extra boards to run make up turns because there is not enough pool turns in town to cover the trains. Total mess.

I vote no.

Posted from Android

The TA calls for voluntary, assigned days off.  The details are being worked out.  Our LC put out a message polling road service engineers about them, saying info gathered would be used to write the contract language.  The BLET in it'd dection 6 cslled for 5 and 2.  To me, that's unworkable for most pools that work out one day and back the next.  .

We had a trial period of rest days on the extra boards about 20 years ago for a short time.  7 and 3 was the cycle.  There was no offset of the guarantee, and that's why the railroad pulled the plug on it.  Too much guarantee at some smaller terminals that mostly protected yard vacancies.  You had regular assigned days, that weren't the same every week, but you could plan ahead.  I'm guessing a cycle like those were, possibly being able to be modified on the local level to accomodate different pool workings.

Has there ever been raises that kept up with indlation or health care?  I know a few at my home are saying the airline pilots got an 80% raise.  Yes and no.  Pilots at smaller, often subsidiary carriers that often fly the "puddle jumper" routes under the banner of the larger airlines did get some huge increases.  Mainly because they many were working for peanuts compared to the large carriers, who only got raises in the 14 to 18% range.

I wish the PEB would've said something about the attendence policies.  I'm guessing it didn't because the attendence policies aren't administered uniformly across the industry.  (Except that there all designed to reduce the number of active employees needed.)  UP starts at 0 and adds points.  BNSF starts at a number and subtracts points.  I've seen something that CSX also uses a point system, but don't know details and I don't know about NS.  Point values and conditions to add or subtract them also aren't uniform.

The other things, self-supporting pools, change in regulation of pools from mileage to starts, the new bidding system (which some already have, but I don't want it), etc, that have been left up to further local negotiation and arbitraition are troubling.  They are all designed to reduce the number of employees needed and I'm afraid that;s going to be the mantra for years to come.  

All in all, while I'm waiting to see the actual agreement, I'm inclined to accept it.  Some things, like the ludicrous sick days are at least a start.  I know a few who didn't think the PEB was completely bad, but like me, didn't care for the things kicked down the road, that's not saying they would accept the TA.  But it says that there may be support for it out there.  Some that may not want to say in public how they really feel and vote.

I expect that should it ratify, we'll be hearing how no one knows anyone who voted for it.  That the damn union chiefs finagled it in.  Then Wilner and the other guy can sit back and smile at the dissension that they are fanning.

  

Pacific5th hit all the Issues I have. The biggest problem I have is the self protecting pools/quality of life and auto bump. Most guys aren’t having trouble with the money it’s

QUALITY OF LIFE.

I’m trying to get my years in but my God this industry is being run by some people that I can’t even begin to comprehend… There’s only so much a human can take.

Posted from iPhone

One may engage in the "pursuit of happiness" but there's no guarantee - even on the RR.

Texican65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The raise doesn’t keep up with inflation…and
> Hi-Viz is still being implemented.
>
> One extra personal leave day allotted annually,
> garbage!
>
> 3 doctor’s visits allowed annually, but can only
> be scheduled on a Tuesday, Wednesday, or
> Thursday…30 days in advance…give me a break.
>
> Plus lots of other stuff…
>
> Does anybody know anyone that is going to cast a
> “yes”? I sure don’t.
>
> Posted from iPhone


Thanks

Posted from Android

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> goduckies Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trying to understand what the agreement turned
> out
> > to be, haven't found a good article... is High
> Vis
> > adjusted?
> >
> > Why are most of you still against it?
> >
> > Thx.
> >
> > Posted from Android
> Wow so guess that you dont work for any RR then as
> time off deal is a huge and always has been a
> sticking point since it was put into place. The
> union workers who are for it must not have the
> same problems as engine crews do then.
>  
No I don't but am working towards it I'm a gluten for punishment, so I wanted your opinions on this. I truly do appreciate the responses.