Western Railroad Discussion > Hwy 80 Donner Pass always an icy mess in snow these days?

Ok give me some rope to hang myself. Part of my fun is trying to get from Sparks to Donner Summit on Hwy 80 when winter conditions are present. It takes lots of practice and lots of good luck. It's fun to be at Boreal Ridge (the summit exit) when things get bad and they finally shut down the highway. There's no one to shut down the highway at the summit so you can toodle on down 80 towards Truckee at your leisure. 

You don't want to Donner Party it though and get stuck on the road during a blizzard.  It's a fine but fun line. 

Tonight I was on the summit during the snowstorm currently over Donner. Guys this is the second time this year that chain controls are failing.  I know my stuff and how to get out of most situations but holy cow most others do not. There are jack-knifed rigs, cars spun out, cars with passenger tires with no chains.  

It's a mess. I finally hightailed back to Lovelock after watching more than a few big rigs backslide. 

What is the cause of these issues on the hill these days? My guess is lack of personnel.  There isn't 30% of the manpower needed to effectively monitor this vital artery. You're lucky to see one CHP. Certainly not the bevy of snow-removal equipment one might expect on Donner. 

Again these are multiple jack-knifes, trucks stalled on the grade you name it.  

Oh and the UPRR scoots right by all this mess like nobody's business. 

Lots of truckers doing chains in shorts and flip flops. I kid you not.  

Chuck 

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/22 21:35 by RailDawg.

The chain/tire inspection station is always a treat.  

If you get a massive amount snow out there, nothing you can do, even with great tires, if it not plowed a couple times an hour.

Here in Colorado if they did that it would curtail day skiing in Colo

snow is so different out there with that high moisture content

dan Wrote:
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> The chain/tire inspection station is always a
> treat.  
>
> If you get a massive amount snow out there,
> nothing you can do, even with great tires, if it
> not plowed a couple times an hour.
>
> Here in Colorado if they did that it would curtail
> day skiing in Colo
>
> snow is so different out there with that high
> moisture content


Which is why it's called Sierra Concrete.  Has all that moisture from the ocean.

I didn't want to sound like a colorado ski snobb and say that, but yes that what we call it, Even up at whistler, pacific crud, or what ever you want to call it.  Then at the utah ski areas the air  dries out a bunch, and by the time it gets to colorado what is left is champagne powder ideally, spring skiing and warmer temps do try and emmulate the cement thou.  Let's hope north america gets volumes of whatever we  want to call it, and rotaries get the call.   Another La Nina year 5 out of the last 6  have been, which they say here in Colorado favors areas north of I70.

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Monitoring the CHP radio and websites on I-5 in Northern California there's two things that stand out about chain control locations,

- Trucks without chains are simply driving through the chain control points, the CHP car stationed at the site reports the truck description and license plates but doesn't leave the control point;

- when the chain control location is moved CalTrans often does not have enough staff to set up the new location before taking down the old location, the waiting vehicles just drive on into the storm.

Quite often once the roads are closed to clear an accident or stuck truck the vehicles in the backup are just as stuck. Last few years they simply closed the road and everybody sat there for the night while they called for more Tow trucks and did what they could.

There's always a bunch of other radio calls about trucks getting stuck in some creative places, usually some ingenious work around that gets them into a snow bank.

+ of note is that CalTrans goes for bare pavement conditions on all lanes, which takes a lot of work during the storm. This may differ from other states. Seems like other States simply close the road while California waits for a big traffic mess before closing the road.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/04/22 08:50 by TCnR.

TCnR Wrote:
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> + of note is that CalTrans goes for bare pavement
> conditions on all lanes, which takes a lot of work
> during the storm. This may differ from other
> states. Seems like other States simply close the
> road while California waits for a big traffic mess
> before closing the road.
>
>  

Probably because CalTrans knows that California drivers can't even handle wet roads much less snow covered roads.

Can Hwy 80 being closed affect railroad operations? The ability to get crews/equipment to an area that needs attention? Dog-catchers?

Trucking has certainly changed over the years. I seriously watched over a dozen obviously new truckers in shorts trying to put on chains on with 27 degrees in wind and snow. Two of them were putting on chains on a grade in the middle of the highway. 

The EV drivers have it tough when the road shuts down for a few hours. Using heat in an EV drains the battery quickly? 

Again the trains roll right on by. Hwy 80 can be paralyzed but the trains keep on moving. 

Chuck

 

yes it affects rr ops, the fall back is to not throw any switches from reno to past truckee, fleeting trains in one direction, often amtrak follows the flanger, maybe with freight behind.  Not sure if there are any cabooses set up as snowbusses out there , there is onein  Denver and Cheyenne and I guess the flanger may have some room in it  i am not sure.   You see anything in truckee, sparks, roseville? you would think roseville may have a winter caboose, they may have UPP reporting marks.

It isn't just I-80, Cal 58 over Tehachapi closes very quickly because accidents happen within minutes of the first snow.
The road is the detour when I-5 thru Gorman closes so the traffic is usually very heavy. CHP doesn't mess with it, they
close the road. As to UP/BNSF, they move crews on trains. Last year the ZLCLT came thru with two rescued crews
on board, luckily they had three units.

Out 

EV's are a special case during bad weather, there's a story about the Chain control Stations checking for EV battery charge levels, along with all the things they say they check on other vehicles. It's usually a question and not an actual verification.

The Tow Companies apparently have an agreement to hook up a gas generator to a stranded EV with a low battery, don't know what those details are. Last year I did see a Tesla with a gas generator mounted on a tow hitch adapter..

TCnR Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> EV's are a special case during bad weather,
> there's a story about the Chain control Stations
> checking for EV battery charge levels, along with
> all the things they say they check on other
> vehicles. It's usually a question and not an
> actual verification.
>
> The Tow Companies apparently have an agreement to
> hook up a gas generator to a stranded EV with a
> low battery, don't know what those details are.
> Last year I did see a Tesla with a gas generator
> mounted on a tow hitch adapter..

You can charge most EV's on 110 VAC, it's slow but it works. The Tesla driver sounds like they've got some hard won experience!

For whatever reason there were no snowplows seen on 80 last night. Well one but it got mixed up with a semi. 

The road was hard ice for several miles over the top plus really icy/snowy descending the Truckee Canyon.  Trucks and cars spun out all over and of course people driving way beyond their and/or their vehicles capabilities.  

Again not sure of the reasons for this lack of plowing/sanding. Mostly young folks manning the stations.  

Did not know that Hwy 80 impacts railroad operations so this is kind of a big deal.  

Chuck

Don't know the story with Donner CalTrans snowplows, in many districts the plow drivers are seasonal Contractors while the chain Control is CalTrans workers, technically Caltrans is responsible for determining road conditions. In most areas there's a snowplow on duty in case of some unusual occurance such as mudslides and usually a bunch of them during a storm for ice and snow.clearing.

The CalTrans Quickmap website has a snowplow tracking feature, it doesn't seem to be working much of the time but when it does it's kinda cool, it's a selection in the road conditions menu, there's a regional setting that can be selected before bookmarking:

https://quickmap.dot.ca.gov/?z=10&ll=35.0984,-120.4507

 

People on I80 drive WAY TOO FAST for the snow conditions. I would never go over 35 and sometimes slower for a max speed.especially on downhill partrs. Brakes are useless, go in low gear with a bit of gas.

WAF Wrote:
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> People on I80 drive WAY TOO FAST for the snow
> conditions.


They drive too fast for wet conditions and they even drive too fast for dry conditions too.
Driving the speed limit is a good way to get rear ended.

WAF Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> People on I80 drive WAY TOO FAST for the snow
> conditions. I would never go over 35 and sometimes
> slower for a max speed.especially on downhill
> partrs. Brakes are useless, go in low gear with a
> bit of gas.

with the hi moisture content you are essentially hydroplaning in the sierras

driving too fast for years, snowplow driver for 40 years

you can often drive too fast as long as nothing is in the way for a mile

you also need to have the same conditions, snow depth , consistency on all four tires or it will pull

70 from the Ike downhill into Denver in the snow is terrifying! 60 in the slow lane is barely
fast enough to not get run over. I-25 at 25 on the ice is also a million laughs, California
isn't alone in Winter sports.

Out 

Does UP still have crew quarters on the Mountain for its snow fighting crews?  Years ago, Railfan & Railroad had an article about the facilities inside one of the tunnels.  Bunk house, cafe, offices, basic shop for minor repairs, etc.  With all the flangers, locomotives, etc there must be a lot of people up there.

but in colorado the snow has no moisture content compared to cali, with much lower tempartures generally, so it is a little safer , more forgiving

The worst maybe the black ice texas and oklahoma get, when it is just a thick sheen, snow you can see, much more readily.

Think the mid mountain facilities are long gone on donner  not sure if they have any locked supplies or resources up there.

I believe that the UP snow crews out of Truckee without permanent people on the Hill.

Out