Western Railroad Discussion > Railroad Bull Authority

Must admit have never seen a railroad bull anywhere outside of a railroad yard. 

How much authority do the railroad cops possess?

Can they write tickets for say trespassing? 

They always seem to be in white trucks when you see them. For some reason they stick out and you know it's the Bull. 

Chuck

Most are fully sworn peace officers, and have the ability to act outside of railroad matters as required. There are some exceptions, but unless you know specifically what those are, assume your "Bull" also has some "Bacon" on the side.

And generally authorized to cross state lines in the performance of their duties, and yes, the guns are loaded with real bullets...

in places like montana  they even help the local pd occaisionally providing backup

RailDawg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Must admit have never seen a railroad bull
> anywhere outside of a railroad yard. 
>
> How much authority do the railroad cops possess?
>
> Can they write tickets for say trespassing? 
>
> They always seem to be in white trucks when you
> see them. For some reason they stick out and you
> know it's the Bull. 
>
> Chuck

A railroad bull, cop, special agent or whatever you choose to refer to them as has full police authority, equivalent to that of the state police, in ALL of the states that the railroad he/she works for. I have a friend who is not only a railfan but also now retired CSX special agent as well and asked him about it long ago.

CSX has both marked and unmarked SUV's. My friend had an unmarked vehicle during his years at CSX as his personal request. His last vehicle was not white. While most do choose white for the majority of they're police vehicle fleet it's not uncommon for other colors to be found in the fleet.

Bryan Jones
Brooks, KY
Bryan's Train Photos

I've personally run across a railroad Policemen twice, once at a derailment scene. We walked through a woods to see the cars that had rolled over after a raiI broke. This was a 10 MPH branch line. I was with a railfan friend and when the policeman approached he noticed that my friend was wearing a jacket with a police department name embroidered on it. His daughter was a Police Department Dispatcher and had given it to him as a present. The "Bull" introduced himself and we had a friendly chat about what had happened and not getting any closer for our safety. We took some photos and drove around to the other side where access was through a large apartment complex. As we neared the embankment to look down in the cut where the cars were there were local policemenen, firemen and other first responders there, call it "crowd control". As we approached it was a little different. We were carrying cameras and we were stopped and asked if we were from the newspaper or TV. We said no and they said Okay, go ahead!
 The other time I encountered, ironically the same "Agent". I had pulled into the entrance of a driveway into a car shop, at a yard, to photo some office cars parked there. All was good but I only had one exposure left, while changing the roll of film, he pulled up in a white truck! He asked if I was a rail empoyee and when I said no, he informed me I was trespassing on RR property and asked for photo I.D. He took my license, copied down the info and then the license number and description of my truck into a little black book. He then unformed me he wasn't going to issue a citation but I "was now in his book". That was 20 years ago. Shucks, all I needed was a jacket with a P.D. name on it!
 I live by an NS mainline and there are often 4 wheelers and dirt bikes using the 2 track ROW as a "highway" to and from abandoned gravel pits. My neighbor and his son own a couple 4 wheelers. About 5 years ago it was common on a weekend to have other 4 wheelers gather there and they would head on down to the railroad. One Saturday night they were sitting around a bonfire drinking suds after a day of 4 wheeling. There was one person who had a loud booming voice and I heard him laughing and then he said "Randy got busted by the railroad today and it cost him $300.00"!
Yup, they are real "Cops".
Gonut

And in Wyoming they are not recognized as police officers and have no power to arrest or cite, I don't believe UP/BNSF even have special agents in that state as the most they could do is be a set of eyes to call in issues to their local sheriff or PD,

wyoming has  special agents, not sure if any are based there anymore

california has had the problems and the border states, so much of their time is there i suspect

UP has some in iowa and nebraska, any color of american vehicles,  explorers and 1/2 ton trucks  fords and dodges

It is a very bad thing to have persons with full police powers who are owned by a private company instead of an agency (supposedly) which answers to the public.

How would you feel if WalMart or [insert political party name] or Microsoft or Tesla Motors or Joes Hamburger Stand could have people with full police powers and who answer only to their own companies?

Railroad police should be disbanded at once. Private police forces should be illegal.

Michael

Calm down.  Railroad police are not going to write you a ticket for speeding, expired tags, or running a red light, or arrest you for shoplifting.  

===================================================================================== 

emd_mrs1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a very bad thing to have persons with full
> police powers who are owned by a private company
> instead of an agency (supposedly) which answers to
> the public.
>
> How would you feel if WalMart or or Microsoft or
> Tesla Motors or Joes Hamburger Stand could have
> people with full police powers and who answer only
> to their own companies?
>
> Railroad police should be disbanded at once.
> Private police forces should be illegal.
>
> Michael

under federal law after the coal mines strikes in the early part of the century, there was a law passed that private companies could not have private police. My question is why do we have laws no one listens to them anyway.
ED

This is not quite true. While they are recognized as peace officers in most states, there are at least a couple where they are not. One is I think Wyoming (referenced by another comment). Another is Minnesota. There my understanding is they have no more authority than a mall cop. If they claim otherwise (and it has happened) they are exposing themselves to a charge of impersonating a police officer.  I once was confronted by a special agent in Minnesota on public property who mistakenly thought I had been on railroad property (I hadn't) and asked for my ID. I refused and asked him what his authority was. He pointed to a patch, of all things, on his shoulder which said "Railroad Police." I asked him if he had an actual badge and if he was a registered peace officer. He backtracked and didn't give a clear answer. I laughed and told him he was wasting my time and left the area. Sometimes you need to stand up for your rights or you will lose them.

redneckrailfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A railroad bull, cop, special agent or whatever
> you choose to refer to them as has full police
> authority, equivalent to that of the state police,
> in ALL of the states that the railroad he/she
> works for. I have a friend who is not only a
> railfan but also now retired CSX special agent as
> well and asked him about it long ago.
 

State Laws commissioning/granting Police Authority — The Railroad Police

The “Pinkertons” are usually considered company officers and are stooges for the Carriers.

Anti-union and most hold agreement employees with disdain, while projecting a Uber-mensch cocksure attitude.

Can you tell I have not had many positive experiences with them? Most of the time when Cinder Dicks come around it’s to play body guard for the Grand Poobahs when they come to town.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

In Texas they are actually sworn as deputy sheriff officers although their uniform does not say that.  It says "police"

Some time ago, the UP specail agent in our area would patrol the crossing our Albany, Oregon, yard lead (and UP mainline) crossed and would issue traffic tickets to folks who ran the crossing gates.  

Rathole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Calm down.  Railroad police are not going to
> write you a ticket for speeding, expired tags, or
> running a red light, or arrest you for
> shoplifting.  
>
> ==================================================
> =================================== 
>
> emd_mrs1 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is a very bad thing to have persons with
> full
> > police powers who are owned by a private
> company
> > instead of an agency (supposedly) which answers
> to
> > the public.
> >
> > How would you feel if WalMart or or Microsoft
> or
> > Tesla Motors or Joes Hamburger Stand could have
> > people with full police powers and who answer
> only
> > to their own companies?
> >
> > Railroad police should be disbanded at once.
> > Private police forces should be illegal.
> >
> > Michael

FWIW there are usually UP police involved with the UP Steam runs (3985, 844, and 4014) in WY ... there were officers in Albion WY on the latest UP 4014 run  and at the Hawk Springs WY crossing on US85 back in June (the HomeRun Express), and usually at every stop where public access is expected.  My personal interactions with railroad police have been polite and professional ...

Odyssey
Evergreen, CO

Seems there's quite a gray area on what the bulls can and cannot do?

Do the railroads have the authority to authorize bulls to detain/arrest or must this be granted by each state?

Then of course there's the question of what powers regular law enforcement officers have on railroad property...

Chuck 

 

RailDawg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seems there's quite a gray area on what the bulls
> can and cannot do?
>
> Do the railroads have the authority to authorize
> bulls to detain/arrest or must this be granted by
> each state?
>
> Then of course there's the question of what powers
> regular law enforcement officers have on railroad
> property...
>
> Chuck 
>
>  

Private companies don’t have the “authority” to deputize anyone, no matter what they think. Like posted above Bobs Burgers can’t LEGALLY hire its own Goons to impose its corporate will (cough cough). Police powers are granted by civil authorities, and civil authority and rights apply everywhere on sovereign U.S. soil, no matter what the Carrier’s think.

Do some Googling of the Pinkerton Agency to see what still happens in modern day America. It’s no wonder that corporations don’t like groups like the ACLU.

It CAN happen here.

Regards

Posted from iPhone

But....Many private companies (outside of railroads) hire off duty officers for security.   Then those individuals have nearly(?) the full authority of a sworn officer.  Very common here in NJ.