Western Railroad Discussion > CPKC Does It Again

So around a week after CPKC stalled a train on the 1.6% grade out of Ottumwa, IA which resulted in a train sliding back through the diamond with BNSF, they stalled another train on the hill and it started sliding back too. Can’t believe they managed to do this again after the screw up last week.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/24 20:10 by lew_an.

lew_an Wrote:
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> ...Can’t believe they managed to do this again
> after the screw up last week.



I Can...

I've lost count over the years of how many Monster/Mega 140-170 car H-KCKBAR manifests on the BNSF have failed, broke apart, hit the dirt, crapped out. Or how many Union Pacific Roseville to West Colton runs with (empty center-beam lumber) cars smack dab in the middle have string-lined off the tracks of one of Tehachapi's 100+ curves. The Bean counters DON'T CARE! Shave off or adjust a few tons of weight and run it again! Failure is not an option. And always, blame the crew.

~ Mr. MRL

I guess I really need to learn to stop having faith in the railroads to fix things. I just figured after nearly causing a massive derailment last week in the same spot, they may be on top of things for at least a little while.

It sucks, but all the big transporattion and fortune 500 companies these days are run by lawyers.  They know nothing about operations.

So the Ivory tower ppl will screaming at the Ops ppl, "what the hell is going on?",  And  the Ops ppl will scream back...You keep cutting our budget, what do you want (in which case they get fired, and the next yes man get to run ops), or if ops ppl dont want to lose their jobs, they BS their way around it, and nothing changes, and they hope it doesnt happen again.

Welcome to modern American Mgmt

This all took place this evening; the train was an 859, loaded coal train for Fruitland, handed off by BNSF at Ottumwa.  Power is a BNSF SD70ACe and a Grinstein SD70MAC up front with an SD70ACe/SD70MACe set mid-train.  The Ottumwa, IA CP Steel Highways cam is on YT; here is the a timeline of events.

19:35:51 Lead units pass cam
19:37:37 DPU's pass cam, after which train really starts to slow
19:41:08 Train stalls, starts to roll back at 19:41:13
19:41:20 Air is dumped, CP crew starts reaching out to BNSF DS who has been talking to another train
19:42:35 Train stops after rolling 7 car lengths, meanwhile BNSF DS works on giving train a light at the Ottumwa diamond.  The train did not pass the signal before stopping.
19:43:31 CP DS responds to CP's crew, plan is made to take the train back to Ottumwa yard
21:01:04 After conductor has walked to back of train, engineer starts the shove back to the yard

The engineer says that he initially set 20 pounds when the train stalled, then put the train in emergency seconds later, as the video indicates.  The engineer told the CP DS that all of the units were online and working.

Matthew



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/24 21:24 by Roadmaster.

lew_an Wrote:
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> ... I just figured after nearly causing a massive derailment
> last week in the same spot, they may be on top of
> things for at least a little while.




Key word, nearly.

As was mentioned within one of the responses to the prior thread on this related topic... nothing bad (publically) occurred, other than some random/obsure (sorry to the camera operators) railfan/foamer cam just so happening to catch the 'whoopsie'.

North American Class-I railroads are well known to carry with them enormous (state wide covering) rugs. They have been successfully sweeping metric tons of horse manure underneath for decades.


~ Mr. MRL
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/24 23:13 by MrMRL.

Well, it's not like the CPKC has any mountains on their system to deal with - railroad grades must be a new thing... <sarcasm>

Oh wait, they do have a pretty good history of runaway trains in the Canadian Rockies! <unfortunately, not sarcasm.>

Would a railfan/foamer cam with audio be allowed in the court room as evidence if something Bad does happen?
Wait, nothing bad is going to happen. Nothing bad is going to happen. Nothing bad is going to happen.
 

MrMRL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> lew_an Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ... I just figured after nearly causing a
> massive derailment
> > last week in the same spot, they may be on top
> of
> > things for at least a little while.
>
>
>
>
> Key word, nearly.
>
> As was mentioned within one of the responses to
> the prior thread on this related topic... nothing
> bad (publically) occurred, other than some
> random/obsure (sorry to the camera operators)
> railfan/foamer cam just so happening to catch the
> 'whoopsie'.
>
> North American Class-I railroads are well known to
> carry with them enormous (state wide covering)
> rugs. They have been successfully sweeping metric
> tons of horse manure underneath for decades.
>
>
> ~ Mr. MRL
>  
"Metric tons of horse manure", spit my Mt Dew out with that one! With every pile, we just go in and tweak the optimizer just a bit, and make it all better. Then cut another check to Hulcher.

Watched thge video..  Interesting bc it has all the communications with the crew and DS.   Sounds like they were plowing snow in addition to trying to get the train up the hill.   Seems as tho the BNSF power desk didnt know how much snow was on the ground, and the train was underpowered/not enough traction  to get the train up the hill with wet rail/snow. 

Crew was excellent.    Train roilling backwards after a stall is a little scary. but thankfully when they went in emergency the train stopped.
Condr walked the train to rear end, and they backed the train down the hill.    Then they cut off the power and ran up the hill and back to clear the snow.

If it were me, I would have asked to have some more power coupled to the back of the train for a push...but maybe they knew that wasnt an option.

Long night for the crew.

MILW-E78 Wrote:
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> MrMRL Wrote:
> >
> > North American Class-I railroads ... have been successfully sweeping
> > metric tons of horse manure underneath for decades.
> >  
> "Metric tons of horse manure", spit my Mt Dew out
> with that one!


He gets it...

~ Mr. MRL

---

Made it the second time,after adding CP 9833 and a KCS GP40 to the rear and from 251's train, topped at 15mph.
I remember many stalls there when I dispatched the IC&E,but never anything like this,let alone a repeat performance. EHH reaching beyond the grave to bitch slap us all yet again. We either doubled the hill,or put every motor in town on the damn thing to get it up the hill,but not now.

Now,251 still has to get up the hill,and the night ain't over.

Dispatcher68 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I remember many stalls there when I dispatched the
> IC&E,but never anything like this,let alone a
> repeat performance. EHH reaching beyond the grave
> to bitch slap us all yet again. We either doubled
> the hill,or put every motor in town on the damn
> thing to get it up the hill,but not now.
>
> Now,251 still has to get up the hill,and the night
> ain't over.


"The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

~ Mr. MRL

 

Also yesterday (1/18), northbound train 261 started up the hill with two engines, one on the front and one mid-train, and it almost stalled. Crew contacted the dispatcher and dispatch put a signal request in to BNSF just in case the train started back…at one point they got down to a 1 MPH crawl but they did finally make it.

CPKC's obvious new solution, going forward: Every train going up the grade will have the signal at the diamond until it crests the grade; that way, runaways don't matter! No need to change power policies.

859 got going out of Ottumwa around 0100-19. Crew was good til 0615-19. 251 went up the hill shortly after 0200-19 and did make it about 17 mph. This morning 261 was in the yard but had not gone up hill as of 0600. 
MILW86A 

Welcome to Modern North American Railroading. Brought to you under the auspices of The Staggers Act of 1980 and driven to unimaginable levels of ecstasy by his exultant Poobah Harrison (PBUH) and the most powerful high priests of the Cult of PSR.
One of the tenets of PSR is the laws of Newtonian physics can be bent and broken by the sheer power of the WILL of Class One mgmt!
Another tenet is if a plan of action, no matter how insane, does not work; KEEP DOING THE SAME THING until a different desired result happens.
Remember:

Reality will kneel to the POWER OF PSR THOUGHT.


Even though I have loaded sarcasm in my reply here, I am not being facetious when I say this is the truth of the thought process of PSR.

And the band played on…

Regards

Posted from iPhone

inCHI Wrote:
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> CPKC's obvious new solution, going forward: Every
> train going up the grade will have the signal at
> the diamond until it crests the grade; that way,
> runaways don't matter! No need to change power
> policies.

What a wonderful idea! Just put all the delay on some other railroad while you run your underpowered trains up a ruling grade at 1mph.
See, office group think can have a positive outcome, and overcome operational challenges. Give yourselves a raise/bonus for that one!
 

MILW-E78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> inCHI Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > CPKC's obvious new solution, going forward:
> Every
> > train going up the grade will have the signal
> at
> > the diamond until it crests the grade; that
> way,
> > runaways don't matter! No need to change power
> > policies.
>
> What a wonderful idea! Just put all the delay on
> some other railroad while you run your
> underpowered trains up a ruling grade at 1mph.
> See, office group think can have a positive
> outcome, and overcome operational challenges. Give
> yourselves a raise/bonus for that one!
>  

You, Sir have a future at the Class One mgmt school nearest you!

Regards

Posted from iPhone

MILW-E78 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Would a railfan/foamer cam with audio be allowed
> in the court room as evidence if something Bad
> does happen?
  

They could be allowed in court if called as a witness.