Western Railroad Discussion > Help out the Class one's and short lines in California

BNSF had sent me an Email and many of the TO's members may have received the same email asking for help from California's UN reasonable carbon mandate. 

Lets see if the Trainorders community can help out. 

Help protect the nation’s freight rail network. (p2a.co)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/24 10:13 by czuleget.

This was spoken about on 3/18, but good to remind people.  

Ats this point, I would be content to let them have their way, and when it all comes crashing down on them, like many of the other issues facing California, maybe they'll figure it out.  Sometime you just have to let the child touch that hot stove so they learn the life lesson. 

Will it apply to highway vehicles as well?

Posted from iPhone

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

ALCO630 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Will it apply to highway vehicles as well?

No. It's strictly about railroad locomotives.

Did anyone attend the EPA scheduled meeting/hearing on March 20, 2024, concerning this CARB proposal?

Are you kidding? UP 1943 was leading a train that day!

Now that's ironic!!

Out 

The link comes up as  403 forbidden 

junctiontower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ats this point, I would be content to let them
> have their way, and when it all comes crashing
> down on them, like many of the other issues facing
> California, maybe they'll figure it out. 
> Sometime you just have to let the child touch that
> hot stove so they learn the life lesson.

BNSF and other railroads that will be affected can do better. First, the shortline owners/managers should be planning their retirement right NOW.

BNSF should start the process of winding their operations down and boycott. Since UP should be affected, too, they can do the same. If common carrier obligation is thrown at them, make the rates so high that customer will switch to trucking. No business, no obligations. Class I's have disrespected the obligation for years already, so this shouldn't be difficult.

Costs are definitely going to be cut by NOT doing business in CA. Shouldn't hurt the OR much if at all, who cares about revenue.

You can't fix stupid, or insanity. Railroads should prepare to end all business in the state. 

This suggestion is pure fantasy.

Bob Wilcox
Charlottesville, VA
My Flickr Shots

This may be an overly aggressive first step, but Corporations won't be progressive unless it's profitable or forced.

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> BNSF and other railroads that will be affected can
> do better. First, the shortline owners/managers
> should be planning their retirement right NOW.
>
> BNSF should start the process of winding their
> operations down and boycott. Since UP should be
> affected, too, they can do the same. If common
> carrier obligation is thrown at them, make the
> rates so high that customer will switch to
> trucking. No business, no obligations. Class I's
> have disrespected the obligation for years
> already, so this shouldn't be difficult.
>
> Costs are definitely going to be cut by NOT doing
> business in CA. Shouldn't hurt the OR much if at
> all, who cares about revenue.
>
> You can't fix stupid, or insanity. Railroads
> should prepare to end all business in the state. 

Well, I highly doubt BNSF and UP completely abandon CA as for one the odds this entire CARB policy survives through the Supreme court is near zero. The least likely to survive is the spending account and new locomotive emmission standards as detailed below. But a staged approach may happen.

The spending account is a mandate on private enterprise financials that will never go past the supreme court but even the new locomotive standard is already DOA. Specifically, the EPA has already stated that only they can determine emission standards on new locomotives. They explained to Wabtec that CA or any other state is prohibited from requiring new locomotive emissions higher than the EPA... unless the EPA mandates it. Essentially the CARB mandate for zero emission locomotives is dead already as nobody expects the EPA to go that far without being overturned by the supreme court.

Yes the "non-new" locomotive requirement for nothing older than 23 years old could remain. However, rails could realistically start an updated version of a new build program that just modifies existing locomotives to accommodate a Tier 4 prime mover or Tier 4 emission scrubbing equipment. Not saying this is cheaper than current rebuilds but slap a new builder plate on it and call it a day. Been done before and cheaper than starting from scratch with a true new locomotive. Yeah, a few older units might have to stay out of CA, but not impossible to manage either.

This is where both UP and BNSF can run a staged ops with many services cheaper to terminate/originate just outside of CA. They could also charge higher rates for any traffic (e.g., bulk) still headed into the state to offset higher operating costs. Suspect this is partially why UP and BNSF have become very interested in short hauling LA to Phoenix intermodal. Both could charge major rates into/out of CA and/or start telling companies to use different ports and to get containers/trailers into and out of CA on their own if they want to avoid that rail fee. Rails can then take it from there on more affordable rates. Basically don't feel bad for BNSF or UP as they'll be fine. However, the shortlines are the ones that could get hurt along with citizens in CA that will have the higher cost of transportation passed along to them more than anybody else (of course if they desire CARB policy, then maybe they don't care).



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/24 09:23 by AaronJ.

Try going onto the BNSF web site. looking for the link.  It currently works for me. 

CARB's In-Use Locomotive Regulation Rule Will Hurt the American Economy - Association of American Railroads (aar.org)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/24 10:05 by czuleget.

Should have added a link to this site that provides a very clear and descriptive explanation why the CARB ruling on locomotive emission standards won't make it through the court system. Most, if not all of it will be overturned at or before the supreme court. In other words, I wouldn't be that concerned over CARB regulations fully coming to fruition.

https://www.wlf.org/2023/09/07/publishing/californias-attempt-to-dictate-locomotive-technology-for-our-national-rail-system-unlawfully-conflicts-with-federal-law/

Unfortunately, they’re trying to bully the trucking industry with the same nonsense.

Posted from iPhone

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

The Class 1s could go zero emission and the state could go without light bulbs. They don't have a clue
as to the power consumption of a locomotive. 

Out 

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> junctiontower Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ats this point, I would be content to let them
> > have their way, and when it all comes crashing
> > down on them, like many of the other issues
> facing
> > California, maybe they'll figure it out. 
> > Sometime you just have to let the child touch
> that
> > hot stove so they learn the life lesson.
>
> BNSF and other railroads that will be affected can
> do better. First, the shortline owners/managers
> should be planning their retirement right NOW.
>
> BNSF should start the process of winding their
> operations down and boycott. Since UP should be
> affected, too, they can do the same. If common
> carrier obligation is thrown at them, make the
> rates so high that customer will switch to
> trucking. No business, no obligations. Class I's
> have disrespected the obligation for years
> already, so this shouldn't be difficult.
>
> Costs are definitely going to be cut by NOT doing
> business in CA. Shouldn't hurt the OR much if at
> all, who cares about revenue.
>
> You can't fix stupid, or insanity. Railroads
> should prepare to end all business in the state. 

Is whatever you smoking available over the counter or does your medical professional prescribe it?

Posted from iPhone

Can we begin with all of the California democrat politicians who blow out more hot air and carbon dioxide talking as well as driving their German made SUV's laughing all of the way to the bank?